WTAF is wrong with West Yorkshire Police?

[Bluestitch]

Don't know if anybody has posted this already, lovely bit of victim blaming there. I'm not even surprised anymore.

mobile.twitter.com/Jessicae13Eaton/status/1105821309701894145

mobile.twitter.com/Jessicae13Eaton/status/1105821309701894145

Misogyny

This was the police force that protected Jimmy Saville, I believe?

I don't think it's victim blaming, just teaching people how to take care.

There are bad people in the world from thieves to rapists and pedophiles. Everybody should know how to try and avoid it.

We teach our children about not taking sweets from strangers and not getting into strangers cars and it's not victim blaming, just keeping them more aware.

So we teach women and girls about not taking free drugs or alcohol or parties and not getting into strangers cars.

No matter what you do, there will be bad people in the world. You can't just tell young girls they can go to random house parties and drink and accept free drugs and feel totally safe. It is not a safe world, and people should help each other to not make decisions that can make it even more unsafe.

If we aren't victim blaming children by teaching them stranger danger, why is it victim blaming women to teach a similar message just about more grown up things like drugs and alcohol instead of sweets and cute lost puppies.

This is the original tweet.

mobile.twitter.com/WestYorksPolice/status/1105502502219366402

Good Lord! It has never in my 50 years occurred to me to be "careful" not to get raped!

Thanks Nuva!

I don't think it's victim blaming

You don't think it's victim blaming to tell women and girls that rape might be a 'price they pay' for their own actions? You don't think this message might put women and girls off reporting assaults if they feel they are going to be held responsible by a police force with a growing reputation for misogyny?

And it's interesting that they don't seem to apply this logic to other crimes- for example their efforts to tackle knife crime target the actions of the criminals not the potential victims.

I initially interpreted the poster as being aimed at teenage girls/very young women to warn them about grooming gangs. It was the "free stuff" angle that made me think that.

It's still pretty bad when you look at it in that light, but it's not quite as bad as the idea that it's warning all women everywhere not to go to parties with their peers. Of course the poster actually is doing the latter, so maybe my first interpretation was way off.

Rape is a price.

It's a consequence of a woman's choice. It is punishment for not being 'wiser'.

Dress it up however the fuck you like - wearing knickers that are too nice, drinking, being out in public, being in a space that isn't public enough, blah blah blah - when you tell a woman that rape is a price she may pay, then you are victim blaming.

Yes, in tackling knife crime in my area they do teach people how to try and avoid things too. Like not associating with gangs, speaking up if you're being threatened etc. I have seen lots of police forces have schemes or linked charities set up to reach those people and try to tell them how to avoid a certain lifestyle that would make being stabbed more likely.

So if we tell children, do not accept sweets from a stranger and do not get into their cars there are bad people who want to do bad things to you, why isn't that victim blaming. The price they'd pay is being kidnapped and worse, and they know this.

Lots of people do make risky decisions and would do everything that the tweet said, they would go to house parties with people they don't know and they would get drunk with a bunch of strangers, so yes some do need to be told over and over that this is risky and to avoid it.
I know I made really dumb decisions at times when I was younger, so did lots of my friends, we look back now and know we were being very naive. Lots of people do. We can't pretend that accepting lifts etc from strangers is suddenly OK now they're not children. We send the message to them throughout childhood, why suddenly stop it in adulthood?

Its doesnt mention women specifically, men get raped too.

Personally I dont think that pointing this out is victim blaming.

We are all indestructible when we are young, we think that it will never happen to us. When I think of the risks I took when I was a teenager my blood runs cold, I put myself in some very dangerous situations.

Reminding young people that not everyone is as they appear and to be wary is no worse than reminding children that not everyone on the internet is who they say they are, or reminding people to keep wallets and purses safe when Christmas shopping.

Women's bodies aren't valuables like wallets and purses that we can hide. I can't pop my genitals somewhere else for safe keeping. And the image is a woman having a nice time socialising, followed by a woman in distress. I'm going to stick with the belief that they are targeting women.

What am I missing here? I really don't see why warning people about dangers is viewed as 'victim blaming'.

when you tell a woman that rape is a price she may pay, then you are victim blaming.

Is it just this wording that people are objecting to? Do you not think it's worth warning teenage girls that men giving them stuff might not just be being nice?

Why can't they just go after the predatory bastards?

Look how common rape is, probably every woman either has a friend or she herself has come across it. They'll never catch all the bad people in this world, including rapists.
So they can go after the predators all they want, but there'll just be another to take their place. It won't stop. All we can do is try to avoid risky situations.

Trying to catch every predator would be like trying to capture every rat or other vermin, it's just not going to happen. There are too many, it is too common.
There are bad people in the world and that's it.

I do think this ad was aimed at young women/teens but don't think it was misogynist. Some just need that stranger danger message driven home the same way they did as children. Don't accept sweets/free drugs at a party with people you don't know. Don't accept lifts from strangers.

Of course it is not their fault if it happens, it's the rapists fault, but that doesn't mean all sense should go out the window and we should let people think these are OK situations and that it isn't dangerous to do this.

Are they attempting to say party animals could be 'animals?' So don't assume it's a fun free party?

It's a bit victim blamey I do see that (I feel I see it everywhere now) - also remains me of Rotherham. So a bit victim blaming in that sense.,

At the same time it would have had an impact on me as a late teen at uni in that it points out how invites to house parties aren't necessarily innocent fun.

It could have been worded better and a better image tbh. Didn't need a woman there.

But everyone, including men, are here being told that it is the womans responsibility to prevent rape.

if she accepts anything from a man, goes to a party etc. it is her own fault if she gets raped. That is quite a powerful message to give men.

Nuva okay so try looking at it this way. Lets say I have already been to a party at the house of a friend of a friend and I've been raped....you would agree it wasn't my fault right? The rapist is to blame not me.

What does the poster tell me though? It tells me I should expect to pay that price if I make that decision.

So is it my fault I got raped or not? How is seeing that poster going to affect someone who has already 'paid the price'?

Can you see its a problem from that point of view? From the side of people who have experience rape being lead to a false conclusion that they are to blame?

It's not her fault, it's just that she is more likely to be a victim in some situations than she is in other situations.
People do need to know this, and they do need to be reminded of situations that things are more likely.

The same way it is not victim blaming to tell children to not accept things from strangers and not to get into their cars, it is not victim blaming to say don't accept drugs/alcohol and don't get into cars with strangers.

I mean, I thought these were messages everybody taught their kids anyway. Just that some need a reminder when they hit that bit between little kid and sensible adult and think everything is great and nothing will happen to them.

It's just how it is. It's making something more likely if you get into strangers cars, go to strangers house parties, or get drunk or high with those strangers. If you don't go with them, the risk is lower.

I don't think I understand the term 'victim blaming'.

What people seem to be saying is that to suggest that people shouldn't put themselves in risky situations is victim blaming. Is that right?

The message is literally the same as don't accept sweets from strangers and don't get into strangers cars in a more grown up scenario. It's no different.

Don't accept sweets from strangers. Don't accept drugs from strangers.
Don't help a stranger look for lost puppies. Don't go to a strangers "house party".
Donr get into cars with strangers.

if she accepts anything from a man, goes to a party etc. it is her own fault if she gets raped. That is quite a powerful message to give men.

I hadn't seen it like that. That makes more sense. So it's the message being given out to men that's the problem.

Why can't West Yorkshire Police run a campaign focusing on telling men about the rights of girls and women?
And that if men violate the rights of women and girls, the police and wider society will come down on them like a ton of bricks?

Yes, I know, I know...

By contrast this is their knife crime leaflet.

mobile.twitter.com/VeggieBeef/status/1105961586009743360/photo/1

Because normal men already know not to rape and don't have the desire to.
It's messed up men who will never be normal who rape. You can't tell them it's wrong and they'll suddenly realise and not do it. They already know its wrong, they just don't care. It's how some of these people get their kicks. They want to rape, no matter if it's wrong or not.

There is always bad in the world. Can't have good without bad some people say. But it's just people, there are good and bad and kind and evil, it's always been and always will be.

But then again, raping your wife was fine til about 1991, and more men thought it was OK then and wouldn't deny it if asked. So maybe constantly giving them the message might help in some cases. No way it'd stop everybody though there'd always be lots of them.

It's just another way of saying 'she was asking for it'.