WTAF is wrong with West Yorkshire Police?

[Bluestitch]

Don't know if anybody has posted this already, lovely bit of victim blaming there. I'm not even surprised anymore.

mobile.twitter.com/Jessicae13Eaton/status/1105821309701894145

it's just that she is more likely to be a victim in some situations than she is in other situations.

Yes, she is most likely to be a victim of someone she knows or in her own home. So how would you like to warn women against that, Nuva? Would you be happy with a poster telling you not to go home because otherwise you'd pay the price for your poor decision-making?

Doing everything ‘right’ and still getting raped can be very damaging to you and you blame yourself because you’ve been taught you have control

But isn't the opposite of this that women have no responsibility for their safety ? That is what you are saying. That you cannot make young women aware of their responsibility for their own safety without psychologically damaging them.

And why are we not running a campaign to tell women not to be in relationships with men. The most dangerous option. Because that would impact on men. It's control of women's behaviour. And it's useless useless advice. We have all been thinking about our behaviour for years, nothing has changed. What we mean when we give our daughters that advice is ''make sure it's another woman not you". It's perfectly understandable that we say this but it's not a strategy that the police should be implementing. Because of their reputation I wouldn't go near the West Yorkshire police if I was assaulted. It might benefit them to reflect on that in their campaigns.

See, I don't read it this way, I think this campaign is probably in light of grooming gangs

If it's aimed at grooming gangs, why does it have to be so esoteric?

Say it. Grooming gangs are operating in this area. The signs are...please be aware...

If you have any reason to believe..., please contact this number and they will be dealt with severely...

Not make it look like some bloody party after a lock in.

What on earth is the point of obscuring the meaning?

And why are we not running a campaign to tell women not to be in relationships with men.

That is what it is saying though, it just doesn't go as far as to say avoid all men always, just to avoid strange men who invite you to parties with promises of free booze/drugs.

The "price to pay" should be targeted at the people who do the assaulting

Men: don't rape women. The price you pay is hard jail term

(If only)

thinking of enticing women and girls with gifts to rape parties? Just to let you know, West Yorkshire Police work undercover and will be watching and willing to attend your rape parties... the Price you pay for being a rapist, may be a long prison sentence...

I like this. Can you suggest it to WYP?

Society chooses this.

It doesn't. Women cannot control men's behaviour and controllig men requires extreme violence and cost and intrusion etc.

I want to see the poster saying, “Boys, Men, if you spike someone’s drink and/or if they are drunk or high then they CANNOT consent and you are guilty of sexual assault and/or rape if you touch them inappropriately. The price you could pay is a prison sentence and an entry on the sex offenders register.”

"The wider context is that society only has limited control over men's behaviour"

And yet society seems to be perfectly capable of exerting a great deal of control over women's behaviour.

It is equally capable of controlling men's behaviour but, as Datun says, it chooses not to.

I don't think anyone's saying that they do - unless that's how you're interpreting the WYP poster.

Sorry my post was poorly phrased. I meant that not all girls and women are going to be in a position to follow the advice of the poster. But even they still deserve decent policing and rape prosecution and for those of us who are able to be pushing for a world where rape isn't normal. The focus needs to be on men not using vulnerability as an excuse for rape.

I like this. Can you suggest it to WYP?

It was my husband’s suggestion. I will tell him to email a complaint and his suggestion. He could probably make the poster as an artist and ex graphic designer. Great idea.

*Society chooses this.

It doesn't. Women cannot control men's behaviour

Society means government, police forces, the judiciary, the CPS.

Aiming campaigns at the perpetrators, increasing convictions, educating juries and judges, targeting porn and prostitution.

Of course these things can be done.

We live in a patriarchy. A patriarchy benefits men.

Go figure.

However, Women can, and do campaign. Otherwise, men who rape their wives would still be doing so with the full backing of the law.

And one of the things to complain about is these posters, targeting the wrong person.

Campaigns have been won before. About this exact same issue.

The price of a banana is 25p. If you choose to buy one, you will need to part with 25p. Your choice will have that price. You choose to spend.

The price of going to very loud gigs and standing near the speakers is damaged hearing. If you want that pleasure, you accept that inevitable consequence. You choose to listen.

The price of detected crime is a criminal record. If you embezzle those funds, your choice will have the consequence of a criminal record. You choose to break the law.

If you have fun, dress how you like, dance, drink, flirt, smile, kiss, you are NOT choosing rape. You owe nothing. Rape is an act, a choice. But not belonging to the victim. It is not a price women pay.

WYP can get knotted.

Women were expected to alter their lives, it was their job to stay safe.

As I've said, I was in Leeds at that time. It wasn't my 'job' to stay safe, it was my duty to myself to do a risk assessment when I was going out at night because I wanted to stay alive. As a student it wouldn't have occurred to me to never go out at night.

I realise this was an exceptional time, but it's made me very wary my whole life of walking around cities at night on my own. There will always be bad people who do bad things. Knowing about them and taking action to avoid being their victims helps to keep you safe - never 100% safe, but it betters your odds.

Posters telling men what consent means and telling them not to rape are a good idea. But we shouldn't stop warning young people of both sexes about dangers they might not have considered and how to improve their chances of not being a victim.

Doing everything ‘right’ and still getting raped can be very damaging to you and you blame yourself because you’ve been taught you have control over making yourself vulnerable.

So do you think it's better to tell girls they have no control over what happens to them, and they might as well indulge in really risky behaviour because they'll probably get raped anyway even if they're really careful?

I've been trying to find an article that I read about written communication and how it works. Unfortunately, google is not forthcoming.

But it was something along the lines of how you phrase sentences.

And it was about male violence, actually.

Something like instead of saying a woman was hit, you say a man hit a woman.

A woman was raped today in the suburbs of Clarktown.

Or

A rapist attacked a woman today in the suburbs of Clarktown.

The subtle, subliminal effect of changing the emphasis, and therefore who is controlling the situation, was fascinating. And very telling.

This poster, whilst not perhaps immediately obvious, gives you a certain narrative.

And that narrative has to change.

What M3lon said up thread is spot on. I was raped at a friends house when i was 15. It was the first time i'd had a drink, the first time an older boy had shown me any interest and the first time i was in a situation i had no idea how to handle. I read that poster yesterday as an adult some 26 years later and still my first thought is that it was my fault. And it's only over recent years that i've started to unpick where that feeling of blaming myself comes from. It's seeing shit like this poster and hearing people make comments that suggest a victims actions were the reason she "got herself" raped. Rapists are the 100% cause of rape, not victims. This shit needs to stop.

I think if the 'the price you pay...' said instead 'they may have plans...' and the images remained it would be quite powerful.

Something like instead of saying a woman was hit, you say a man hit a woman.

So instead of saying' the price you pay could be rape', something like 'the man who's buying the drinks might be a rapist'?

Something like instead of saying a woman was hit, you say a man hit a woman.

The former (avoiding blame) is the passive voice, Datun, while the latter (assigning blame) is the active voice.

Overuse of the passive voice is a barrier to accurate communication.

www.plainlanguage.gov/guidelines/conversational/use-active-voice/

The stats do say that women and girls are more likely to be raped in their own homes than anywhere else. Nearly 40% of women are raped in their own homes, 60% are raped elsewhere.

And as someone said, this is about building a false hierarchy of rape. Rape by someone who you trust can be devastating because it's such an abuse of that trust.

Really, the onus needs to be on men. To teach men and boys that women aren't there to be raped.

The other stats from that ONS report show that rape victims are mainly in their late teens/early 20s. There is a culture there that needs addressing and it's not going to be addressed by telling young women to stay home

Datun - was this your article?

debuk.wordpress.com/tag/passive-voice/

“Boys, Men, if you spike someone’s drink and/or if they are drunk or high then they CANNOT consent and you are guilty of sexual assault and/or rape if you touch them inappropriately. The price you could pay is a prison sentence and an entry on the sex offenders register.”

I like this for a poster, too.

Also: downloadable study here on media reporting using the passive voice: www.researchgate.net/publication/254116646_Double_Standards_in_Sentence_Structure_Passive_Voice_in_Narratives_Describing_Domestic_Violence