WTAF is wrong with West Yorkshire Police?

[Bluestitch]

Don't know if anybody has posted this already, lovely bit of victim blaming there. I'm not even surprised anymore.

mobile.twitter.com/Jessicae13Eaton/status/1105821309701894145

Just wondering if WYP will launch other poster campaigns with posters that say:

‘If you get into a disagreement with someone, upset them or just look at them in the wrong way, a punch in the face might be the price you pay.’

Or, ‘if you buy a nice car, getting it pinched might be the price you pay.’

Or, ‘if you withdraw money from the cash point, use your expensive phone outside of the security of your own home, wear nice clothes or jewellery, or walk anywhere by yourself at any time, getting mugged is the price you might pay.’

Until such time as I see these posters, I shall continue in my belief that WYP are nothing more than a bunch of misogynists.

Yes, I can see advice about not getting your phone nicked, or being careful at the cash point, but it would never end with a warning that if you dont heed the advice, getting mugged is 'the price you pay'.

In fact, in every other public information campaign I have seen that uses that kind of language IS about culpability - drink driving etc.

That's the issue here. Not 'sensible advice'.

Woman judges man as potential risk - namalt, man hating feminist, how very dare she

Woman does not judge man as potential risk - partially responsible for anything that happens to her and should have known better

House parties do not rape women, men do. Wyp and others might have a better track record for investigating and prosecuting rapes if the house parties were responsible. Or maybe nahpalt?

I want to see the poster saying, “Boys, Men, if you spike someone’s drink and/or if they are drunk or high then they CANNOT consent and you are guilty of sexual assault and/or rape if you touch them inappropriately. The price you could pay is a prison sentence and an entry on the sex offenders register.”

This.

Where are the campaigns aimed at deterring men from raping?

Assuming most here will have seen first hand the utter contempt some men have for women, and will therefore know that a poster campaign hoping to change mens attitudes will be utterly ineffective.

A campaign aimed at encouraging young women not to accept "free" drink and drugs without considering why someone might be offering you stuff for free, or invitations to house parties with men they do not know is good advice.

The wording could be better for sure.

The police must think that this is addressing a dynamic that is common enough to be a problem though ?

Exactly - if you know you want to rape women then don’t ever put yourself in a position where’s there is opportunity to rape someone. Much easier than all women everywhere trying to risk assess for unknown risk at all times.

There’s lots of things people are able to refrain from doing that they like doing but have consequences for others. It would be much easier (and reduce the risk of rape) to drive yourself home after a night watching your drink and not talking to anyone whilst wearing your full body armour, but it would put others at risk of you causing an accident because your pissed, so you don’t do it.

Exactly - if you know you want to rape women then don’t ever put yourself in a position where’s there is opportunity to rape someone. Much easier than all women everywhere trying to risk assess for unknown risk at all times.

If it's so easy to get men to do that, why do men still rape?

So if no girls go to parties these people won't rape anyone?

Because no one gives a shit if they rape or not old

So many times someone I know has been raped or sexually assaulted and someone has said to them afterwards not to trust that man or he has a reputation for being a dirty bastard or whatever. People know, the rapists know what they’re going to do and women in general blindly risk assess that this man of their acquaintance is not a rapist because they didn’t meet them at a house party where they were plied with free booze or any other stereotype and the other people around them who know better don’t tell them!

Imagine if every time someone meets Bill his mate says he’s a rapist so watch your drink and don’t let him walk you home. Imagine if on your tinder profile people said if you were a rapist or sexual assaulter. Imagine if we then lived in a society where women who said these things about seemingly normal men were actually taken seriously as opposed to either being liars, misguided, stupid or partially culpable for what happens to them.

Is bill going to be going round raping women if everyone knows about it and judges him for it and let’s everyone else know he’s a risk?

I agree it’s awful wording.

Probably the larger point is that reducing rape is a difficult, societal-wide effort. We can’t control the actions of others, only our own. It can feel like progress is slow.

Controlling our own actions doesn’t solve any larger problems and often shifts the risk to someone else (sadly).

To paraphrase GK Chesterton, its not that telling men not to rape has been tried and found wanting, it's been found hard and never properly tried.

Having a vagina puts you at risk for being raped.

To paraphrase GK Chesterton, its not that telling men not to rape has been tried and found wanting, it's been found hard and never properly tried.

This is it. ^

If everyone knows, how come it was only a few short years ago that it was a very popular trope absolutely everywhere, that plying a girl with a drink so you could have sex with her, was perfectly acceptable. In fact it was part of any red blooded man's seduction technique.

How come it's only recently that people are beginning to realise that what a woman wears, has got nothing to do with the decision of a man to rape her.

Or that her sexual history is irrelevant.

That her being asleep is not consent.

These are really, really recent ideas. And, it would appear, that many men have missed the memo.

It needs to be hammered home.

Let's have posters for every day rape.

This would be far more effective in reducing the overall number of rape.

There really are a frightening number of men who think it's ok to have sex with someone if they are asleep/drunk etc.

It reinforces the message that women are in some way to blame for the choices men make to assault or rape them and that's a shitty thing to say to them - and an even worse message for men to see. Absolves them of full responsibility for the things they decide to do, and gives rape culture a little boost with "she was asking for it anyway" or "she knew what might happen but got drunk anyway".

It also feeds the toxic and insidious notion that wicked/careless women make men do bad things through their own actions. I can't stand that.

Datun That's not right. 'Party animals' are more at risk of rape than people who are at home with partners.

The fact that more rapes are committed at home than out at wild parties has to be interpreted in the light of the fact that people spend more time at home than at parties.

I believe men are more likely to be assaulted by a stranger than a woman is?

So if this isn’t sexism, where are the posters telling men to be careful how much they drink, careful how they speak to strangers, to stay with their friends, to make sure each other get home safe, because being beaten up will be the price they pay if they don’t?

The fact that more rapes are committed at home than out at wild parties has to be interpreted in the light of the fact that people spend more time at home than at parties.

Therefore they are more at risk of rape than those who go to a party.

Being around a person who will rape you, is increasing your risk of being raped.

Absolutely disgusting. 10 years ago I had the pleasure of dealing with my local police force after three massive men pushed me up against a car. One pulled their trousers down and rubbed themselves against me while saying they’re going to rape me while the other one pushed their finger into my head saying they’re going to shoot me in the head. I was on my lunch time break.
I tried to run away as I saw them coming for me but my shoe strap broke and I couldn’t get across the road.
In an interview the police told me that I shouldn’t have been wearing such silly shoes. I had flat sandals on in the heat of summer to go to my bank office job! Sad to see attitudes don’t appear to have changed much. Completely sexist completely lacking in empathy and obviously not going to help society. It upsets me so much to this day.

pineapplepants

That's awful.

You'd think, wouldn't you that the police, who are at the coalface of seeing nasty bastard men acting out their perversions, would be in the best place to understand.

To paraphrase GK Chesterton, its not that telling men not to rape has been tried and found wanting, it's been found hard and never properly tried.

Related news from the DRC: www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-aid-project-helps-cut-violence-against-women-by-more-than-half-in-democratic-republic-of-congo

"Women’s experiences of sexual violence from a non-partner also reduced from 24% to 4% – a more than five-fold reduction."

"International Development Secretary Penny Mordaunt said:

Shockingly, one in three women are beaten or sexually abused during their lifetime, making violence against women and girls one of the most widespread human rights violations in the world.

But this evidence shows it can be stopped, by working with local communities to challenge outdated attitudes about gender and violence.

Every woman and girl deserves the right to live without fear. That’s why UK aid is investing in the largest global study of its kind, to provide the evidence needed to help governments and international organisations end this abuse, save lives and build a better future for everyone."

Shame the same effort isn't made at home Penny.

I believe men are more likely to be assaulted by a stranger than a woman is?

The ONS say that a woman is more at risk from her partner and a man is more at risk from strangers. Also that men are more at risk of being victims of violent crime.

Analysis of the relationship between victims and suspects of violent offences recorded by the police shows that, a greater proportion of violent offences against women were committed by an intimate partner or family member compared with men. For female victims, over one-third (34%) of suspects were intimate partners (compared with 14% of male victims), and 18% were another family member (compared with 14% of male victims)

Men were more likely to be victims of violent crime than women (2.3% of men compared with 1.2% of women)

stranger violence showed the largest difference in victimisation between men and women (1.4% compared with 0.4% respectively)

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2018#how-are-victims-and-perpetrators-related

pineapple

Crossing the street in broad daylight is a risk. Can’t wait to see that on a poster and the debate about whether we should be leaving the house during the day, without a male chaperone unless we’re willing to pay the price.

The thing is, it’s all very well saying the police are just pointing out facts etc but firstly, is this the attitude the police take when crimes such as those emphasised on the poster occur. In my case the male police officer believed no offence had really taken place, his actual words were when I described being unable to run away in time ‘then you shouldn’t have been wearing such silly shoes’ he never saw the shoes I was wearing, just assumed this and in all honesty it was irrelevant.

Do these posters put off people who find themselves victims of crimes reporting the crimes (it has definitely put me off ever going to the police after my incident)

Does it encourage society to victim blame imo yes it does, ‘women you have been warned therefore it’s your fault if something happened’

That’s just a few problems with this poster. Not to mention the absolute sexism pictured.
If (according to this poster)
And what about vulnerable young people. They find themselves at these parties because their mates dragged them there blah blah. Then it’s all their fault if something bad happens right?

When the police called me back a few weeks later asking me to be a witness as they believed the same men had committed an actual rape I couldn’t bring myself to go back into the station. I’d lost all trust and was scared and embarrassed, i actually thought they had a point about me needing to wear better shoes as they were cheap sandals!! I believe a poster like this sends a lot of wrong messages out, it breaks down trust between people and the police who we should be able to turn to if something bad does happen.

That trust for me has never been rebuilt I’m not bitter but more scared that if I ever do need them they won’t help me and sad that I could potentially have helped the poor lady who was raped but felt I was being laughed at by the police for not running away ‘properly’ or not running away because my shoes were not right etc.

This poster says that, it says women don’t be a party animal else you might run into trouble. It should say society wake up and treat each other with respect tbh, that the law will be onto you if you take advantage of a situation. When will we move forward.

The ONS say that a woman is more at risk from her partner and a man is more at risk from strangers. Also that men are more at risk of being victims of violent crime.

Great, so where are the posters telling men how to stop themselves from being attacked? Don’t you think the lack of them could be down to sexism?