Calling Oxfordshire women? I have shit show of a response from OCC and need some parent power to challenge

[GColdtimer]

This was my email to them challenging their Trans Toolkit (like the Brighton one basically). My friend did a thorough critique of it which they have totally ignored. I will post their response in my next post.

We are going to write again asking that they address our actual questions but we need a critical mass of parents to make it worth our while.

Please comment here or PM me.

I am writing to you following a FOI request submitted (14449) last year regarding the Trans Toolkit for School you issued to schools in Oxfordshire. Whilst we received a satisfactory response from a FOI point of view, I am afraid to say we are not happy with the guidelines issued, or the process in which they were developed and would like to formally report our concerns.

I have attached a thorough review of the guidelines and attach a summary of our concerns below:

The guidelines continually conflate sex and gender - sex is biological and fixed, whereas gender is purely social and highly subjective
The guidelines are socially regressive and promotes the stereotyping of girls and boys.
They are contrary to what you are trying to do
They overstep boundaries and undermine parents
They are potentially homophobic
Any school adopting these guidelines is likely to be in breach of their safeguarding guidelines as there are numerous safeguarding issues which put girls in danger
The guidelines show no concern whatsoever for the privacy, safety or dignity of other children in a setting, specifically girls
The statistics quoted are wildly inaccurate and are based on flawed research which holds no statistical significance
The law is misrepresented throughout the guidelines and specific laws are omitted which deal with the protection of the protected characteristic of sex
The guidance directly conflicts with previous, well researched NUT guidance
Notes in the appendix shut down discussion with parents.
The lesson plans ask teachers to put aside biological reality

We discovered via our FOI the guidelines were written by representatives from children’s services across Oxfordshire and other authorities as well as with the assistance of All Sorts and Gendered Intelligence. The FOI stated that no checks had been carried out on these organisations or on the people who are providing this advice and guidance to schools. We understand it was created by Children’s Services and signed off by the OSCB. We would like to see the minutes from the meeting where you discussed the safeguarding aspects of this Toolkit (eg. allowing teenage boys to be allowed to share toilets, changing rooms and dorm rooms with teenage girls) and the impact on other children in schools, specifically girls. We would like to know which parent and teacher groups you consulted with. We would also like to be assured that you informed the schools that they would need to carry out their own equality impact assessment if they adopted the guidelines. Didcot Girls School was not aware of this and have subsequently taken down their policy.

We would like to ask that you take down the Tool kit until you have had change to thoroughly review it and carry out a Children’s Rights Impact Assessment in order to make it legally compliant, non-sexist and inclusive of ALL pupils. We would like to refer you to www.transgendertrend.com who have published a balanced and scientifically researched and robust alternative policy. I would also like to refer you to this Children’s Rights Impact Assessment produced by Women and Girls in Scotland Group which states that similar guidelines issued in Scotland “could breach as many as 15 articles of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child” - wgscotland.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Childrens-Rights-Impact-Assessment-by-Women-and-Girls-in-Scotland.pdf and news article here: www.heraldscotland.com/news/17393697.trans-guidance-for-scottish-schools-breaches-11-childrens-rights-campaigners-warn/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR210Le60d71r3OpeQ35cZZYSYRqYPyMFfyeqF403L-d_WMG4Diz8iS8T94

Myself alongside a number of other parents (at least 50 so far and growing) would be happy to put their name to a complaint but I would like to think in the interests of all children in your care you will be happy to address our concerns.

I look forward to hearing from you.

great post Charlie

But how come we have trans kids. How is this possible. They can’t get a grc till they are 18

We have boys and girls

"Show me a case" says Sky...
If there was a case would you listen..?
Sky probably used to say that about women's jails. Then there was a case, and another, and another.
People like Sky ignored it when evidence was found. They don't give a shit about actual women being harmed. They just want to point score.

Just to confirm OCC will be reviewing their trans policy and guidelines during a meeting with the Oxfordshire Children's Safeguarding Board and council members on 26th April.

WE have asked them many questions about the process of the review and who will be involved but they have not been particularly open with us apart from confirming that Mermaids, Stonewall, All sorts, GI,GIRES will not be involved. The last email from them was essentially "can you please shut up and leave us to it". We have sent them everything of relevance from detransitioners reports, the Times articles, the Tavistock reports, BMJ articles, Lancet piece etc, etc. We have raised concerns about the fact OCC are Stonewall Champions and we do not believe they can be truly balanced in this. We have asked if we can attend as observers, they said no. We asked if we can see minutes, they said no. So we just have to wait and see. We will be writing to the 300 schools I Oxford with links to all of the information we have sent OCC.

We have a local closed FB group, if anyone wants to join to keep up to date with progress and join in campaigning if this don't go our way, can you please PM me (and let me know a regular FWR username if you have changed names as we have to be really careful). I will need to friend you to add you but you can unfriend me after!

Thanks twofalls for doing this. Their response so far doesn't exactly scream 'making safeguarding a priority, being open, accountable and above board' but let's hope they just haven't thought through the safeguarding risks fully.

And just in case they read this thread. We are mothers of girls we will NEVER 'just shut up'. We will do everything and anything in our power to protect them from a dangerous agenda that seeks to weaken safeguarding (whether intentionally or unintentionally). We want trans kids to be safe too, but this does NOT happen at the expense of all girls. It is ILLEGAL to do so. You have to find another way to safeguard ALL children. It's not bloody rocket science. FFS. Sex segregated spaces, third space for trans kids. Easy.

No, this matters. Without proper evidence, this is prejudice based on speculation.

Fyi I am a woman, (assigned female at birth), I am a lesbian, and I have a daughter.

1. There is no such thing as 'assigned female at birth). You ARE either male or female. Even if you are intersex.

2. If you are a woman prepared to sleep with pre-operative trans women because you accept them as women, then you are bisexual not a lesbian. If you wouldnt sleep with a pre-operative trans woman because you are a lesbian, you don't believe that trans women are women.

Having a belief that a transwoman who has a penis can be a lesbian is homophobic. It erases lesbians. Homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex; note sex not gender.

spot on redtoothbrush.

You were not "assigned female at birth". You are female. And if you have sex with someone with a penis, regardless of how they "identify" you are bisexual. Your daughter has rights to single sex provisions to preserve her dignity, safety and privacy. Its a shame you have decided to over look her rights.

Sky what you are asking for is evidence that females are safer if they have access to single sex spaces. There is bucket loads of evidence that supports this.

No, I want specific evidence of what I asked for, ie a boy pretending to be trans to get access to girls' spaces.

My daughter is 23, bisexual, a feminist, with lots of trans friends and a great set of ethics. She's been sexually harassed by men many times and is now very assertive and knows what she wants. She has high standards of behaviour for her boyfriend and is independent.

Telling me about my own sex life feels sexually harrassing. So maybe don't do that. For what its worth I don't have sex with people with penises unless they are detatchable. That's my personal preference. Anyone who forces sex is wrong. That has nothing to do with my belief in the right of trans people and women and girls to live free of harassment.

You can jeopardise your own privacy, dignity and safety Skyzalimit, and even your daughter’s if you must, but not mine, not my Mum’s, my nieces, my friends.

Humans can’t change sex. In certain very specific situations, sex is important. Stop pretending otherwise

It isn’t harassment to say that the presence of a trans identifying male in a single sex female space renders it mixed sex

I feel sexually harrassed by some of you. You are using unwanted sexual language (eg constant 'penis' references) to humiliate me.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/sexual-harassment/

Skyzalimit, while I have no interest whatsoever in your sex life, I think the point is that you seem well able to tell who is male and who is female in that context

Do you not feel that makes your position somewhat incoherent?

No, I don't. I'm not a lesbian for political reasons. Ask yourself why you prefer the partner you have (or want).

So when it is required for your preferences you discriminate on the basis of sex?

I prefer not to share single sex toilets with men. Why don’t I get to discriminate on the basis of sex because of my preferences?

Sexual harassment is not pointing out that men have penis and women don't.

Homosexuals are people who are attracted to people of the same sex, not gender, as them. The clue is in the word 'homosexual.

Suggesting that describing what a homosexual is, is somehow sexual harassment is rather offensive to both homosexuals and those people who have been the victims of sexual harassment.

Crying that you are somehow a victim because others point out what homosexuality is, and what it's based on, is a bloody big stretch.

No one has degraded you. No one has violated your dignity. All they have done is express something that you don't like and don't want to acknowledge. If that makes you feel uncomfortable then I'm not sure how you go about life tbh, because these pretty well defined things based on material reality. People are allowed to talk about them without it being suggested that they are doing something wrong.

I'd like to know why you think talking about males having willies and what a homosexual is constutes sexual harassment, cos quite frankly I'm struggling to understand how you've managed to leap to such a serious accusation.

Ask yourself why you prefer the partner you have (or want).

So lesbians can have groups which specifically state they are lesbians without penises trying to join. Cos they are homosexuals not bisexuals or heterosexuals trying to erase lesbian culture or coercive them into heterosexual sex. And everyone is cool about this?

Sadly we know this isn't the case. And this is a huge issue.

Lesbians, as in actual homosexuals, are not able to define themselves as lesbians because a bunch of people have told them that their preferences are not valid and they are bigoted for having certain sexual preferences.

I don't have a problem with who people sleep with, but I do have a problem if how they identify affects others by erasing material reality of experience. If you are a woman who will sleep with penises, you are not a lesbian by definition. No matter how you identify.

I mean, how is a teenager who is a lesbian supposed to navigate all this, if she is constantly told that lesbians much accept sleeping with penises? And she is being actively taught this by her school. And this teaching is inherently homophobic in nature because it can not and does not define homosexuality in terms relating to the same sex - and replaces this with gender instead.

It's bullshit.

It's not progressive and accepting of anything.

It's actively telling young lesbians they have no right to their own language, identity and boundaries.

And fucking hell that really opens them up to very real sexual harassment, exploitation and abuse.

I'm fuming over that bullshit accusation.

Skyzalimit always so free with the facts and the accusations. It is not sexual harassment to use the anatomically correct vocabulary for human genitals in a discussion about human biology, specifically about the anatomical characteristics of the male and female sexes. Not even when we refer to genitals to clarify sexual orientation.

And yes, there has been at least one UK specific case of a 14 year old boy pretending to be a girl being given access to a girl's changing room and then sexually harassing at least one 11 year old girl by masturbating in front her. He was reported to police and the victim's mother challenged the relevant UK Minister about this in public.

There are also countless cases of trans-identifying males attacking females in many other places, most recently an 18 year old male attacking a ten year old girl in a supermarket toilet in Fife. And a recently sentenced crossdresser who dresses as an old woman in order to get close to female victims to sexually harass them.

However, none of that is relevant to the issue of the rights of female children.

Whether you like it or not, female children have legally guaranteed rights under both the UK Equality Act and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Amongst other things, they are specifically protected on the basis of their sex.

When we discuss whether female children are to have their rights taken away, it is completely irrelevant whether we take their rights away via male children who claim to be trans for nefarious purposes or whether they claim to be trans in all honesty. The end result is the same: female children have their human rights violated and their existing legal rights under domestic law taken away.

Nefarious motivations merely add insult to injury, they do not inflict the actual injury which is the removal of their rights.

These rights are not just the right to safety but also the right to non-discrimination, the right to privacy, the right to have their best interests taken into account, the right to education, the right to have the state support them in recovering from abuse, the right to have their views respected and the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

All of which are breached by including male children in the limited number of single-sex provisions set aside for female children.

👆Charley. Nothing else to add. Great

So woke they're sleep walking their way out of their own rights

Skyz doesn't believe in prevention being better than cure obviously.

My children are NOT going to used as collateral damage in this experiment to satisfy you or anyone else Skyz, they do NOT consent to having their boundaries trampled over and their safety, dignity and privacy removed and violated.

I remember the case at school that Charlie referred to and also recall that the MP was totally dismissive of the mother's concerns. It was disgusting.

Stella Creasy. Let's call her out here.