Calling Oxfordshire women? I have shit show of a response from OCC and need some parent power to challenge

[GColdtimer]

This was my email to them challenging their Trans Toolkit (like the Brighton one basically). My friend did a thorough critique of it which they have totally ignored. I will post their response in my next post.

We are going to write again asking that they address our actual questions but we need a critical mass of parents to make it worth our while.

Please comment here or PM me.

I am writing to you following a FOI request submitted (14449) last year regarding the Trans Toolkit for School you issued to schools in Oxfordshire. Whilst we received a satisfactory response from a FOI point of view, I am afraid to say we are not happy with the guidelines issued, or the process in which they were developed and would like to formally report our concerns.

I have attached a thorough review of the guidelines and attach a summary of our concerns below:

The guidelines continually conflate sex and gender - sex is biological and fixed, whereas gender is purely social and highly subjective
The guidelines are socially regressive and promotes the stereotyping of girls and boys.
They are contrary to what you are trying to do
They overstep boundaries and undermine parents
They are potentially homophobic
Any school adopting these guidelines is likely to be in breach of their safeguarding guidelines as there are numerous safeguarding issues which put girls in danger
The guidelines show no concern whatsoever for the privacy, safety or dignity of other children in a setting, specifically girls
The statistics quoted are wildly inaccurate and are based on flawed research which holds no statistical significance
The law is misrepresented throughout the guidelines and specific laws are omitted which deal with the protection of the protected characteristic of sex
The guidance directly conflicts with previous, well researched NUT guidance
Notes in the appendix shut down discussion with parents.
The lesson plans ask teachers to put aside biological reality

We discovered via our FOI the guidelines were written by representatives from children’s services across Oxfordshire and other authorities as well as with the assistance of All Sorts and Gendered Intelligence. The FOI stated that no checks had been carried out on these organisations or on the people who are providing this advice and guidance to schools. We understand it was created by Children’s Services and signed off by the OSCB. We would like to see the minutes from the meeting where you discussed the safeguarding aspects of this Toolkit (eg. allowing teenage boys to be allowed to share toilets, changing rooms and dorm rooms with teenage girls) and the impact on other children in schools, specifically girls. We would like to know which parent and teacher groups you consulted with. We would also like to be assured that you informed the schools that they would need to carry out their own equality impact assessment if they adopted the guidelines. Didcot Girls School was not aware of this and have subsequently taken down their policy.

We would like to ask that you take down the Tool kit until you have had change to thoroughly review it and carry out a Children’s Rights Impact Assessment in order to make it legally compliant, non-sexist and inclusive of ALL pupils. We would like to refer you to www.transgendertrend.com who have published a balanced and scientifically researched and robust alternative policy. I would also like to refer you to this Children’s Rights Impact Assessment produced by Women and Girls in Scotland Group which states that similar guidelines issued in Scotland “could breach as many as 15 articles of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child” - wgscotland.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Childrens-Rights-Impact-Assessment-by-Women-and-Girls-in-Scotland.pdf and news article here: www.heraldscotland.com/news/17393697.trans-guidance-for-scottish-schools-breaches-11-childrens-rights-campaigners-warn/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR210Le60d71r3OpeQ35cZZYSYRqYPyMFfyeqF403L-d_WMG4Diz8iS8T94

Myself alongside a number of other parents (at least 50 so far and growing) would be happy to put their name to a complaint but I would like to think in the interests of all children in your care you will be happy to address our concerns.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Show me an example of a case of a UK school aged boy saying he identifies as a girl, with no change of clothes, name, behaviour, a medical diagnosis, or anything, which he has sustained long enough for a school to have sent him into the girls' changing room.

Why all of that list?

Why is a change of name and clothes relevant to the girls?

Lily Madigan bulldozed Lily's way into the girls' changing rooms at Lily's school without changing anything about Lily's attitude or body.

I was quoting a claim made by a previous poster. Read the thread

The only thing to add to Charley's post is that schools are obliged by law to provide separate toilets and changing areas for boys and girls over the age of 8. I wonder what Sky thinks the reasons for this are?

I have an eight year old son. He has recently become much more aware of his body and he chooses to change away from girls and women, including me. Both he and his female cousin of the same age chose not to change together in the family changing room at the swimming pool recently. They are extremely close, spend a lot of time together, but their growing understanding of their bodily differences meant that they do not want to be naked Infront of eachother. This is all completely normal development.

So why should my son, or my neice, have their wishes not to be naked infront of children of the opposite sex overridden?

Even leaving aside the risks of abuse, harrasment and assault that may flow from mixed facilities, my son and his cousin deserve dignity and respect and should not be put in a position where they have to be naked in front of a child of the opposite sex.

And WTAF is special girl behaviour?

Also, I grew up at a time and place when boys and girls basically wore the same clothes for much of the year. Practical, durable and bright in all colours and patterns. No colour-segregation by presumed affinity with the sexes. Thoroughly despised 70s fashion but the more I think about it, the more I miss the freedom we had of not being told one could only be thought of as a girl if one wore special girl clothes. Because I never wore what I presume Skyzalimit thinks of as special girl clothes.

Ooh look Sky is ignoring the case!

Ooh look Sky is ignoring the case! No surprise there terfsandwich, always the way with those who want to strip away rights from others.

Link please CharlieParley

And recounting totally irrelevant adult paedophile stories is irresponsible dog whistle transphobia.

Minimising my feelings about being sexually harassed by people who have asked me intimate sexual questions about my sex life is gaslighting.

can I just say how much I like your posts CharlieParley? when I see your name, I always know it's gonna be good

Me too Bernard. Charley really lay# it out

And recounting totally irrelevant adult paedophile stories is irresponsible dog whistle transphobia

what now? what the heck are you referring to Skyzalimit?

Of course this thread is getting real world traction, and proving to be very fruitful.

it would be a real shame if it got fractious and then got deleted.

Gawd only knows Bernard cos sky is reading a totally different thread to what I am reading
Am like wtaf 😦😦🤦‍♀️

Oh look DARVO.

The thing is, Sky, that though you may be as happy as a happy thing about male people in female changing rooms, plenty of women and girls aren't.

Where does that leave them? They can't become magically unfemale. They can't comfortably use the men's.

It leaves them with the choice of: plead for a separate space to be made available so that they can remove themselves from both the male and the now-mixed-sex facility, ignoring the calls to re-educate themselves; or have nowhere.

I know you could say that about the male trans child too. But the girls are the ones the facility was meant for in the first place.

Skyzalimit again with the misrepresentation. I was quoting a claim made by a previous poster. Read the thread.

I went back to check. This is what you said: Why would someone put herself through this simply to be in a girls' changing room?

GenderFreeAdultHumanFemale pulls you up on that, rightly pointing out that in line with activists most recent demands, we - and by extension schools - now have to accept that one does not have to internalise or externalise any of the sex stereotypes associated with the opposite sex in order to claim one identifies as a member of the opposite sex. Here are her words:

Put themselves through what exactly? All it takes is saying you identify as a girl, no need to change clothes, name, behaviour, have a medical diagnosis, or anything.
They can switch between genders at will, and schools appear to be bending over backwards to accommodate and to avoid offending the one child, whilst ignoring the safety of the majority of their pupils.

Whatever GenderFreeAdultHumanFemale may think of not having to adopt such opposite-sex stereotypes to claim trans status, her words do not allow us to draw any conclusion from that. But she is correct in pointing out that this is now the new trans orthodoxy - status without expression - which one expects schools to adhere to.

Whether any such individuals exist is irrelevant, they are included under the trans umbrella, they are included in the group of those whose rights are now prioritised over the rights of female children. And you clearly are an adherent to that new trans orthodoxy, too.

So, to recap: This is what we have an issue with - inclusion of any males in female-only provisions.

No matter how male children present or identify, they have no right to access female-only provisions and we demand that all of them remain excluded from all things female only in line with existing law.

do you know what, in all this I'd never thought about my DS1 (good feminist / bad mother). He's 8 and over the last year has increasingly wanted privacy when partially or fully naked. God how he would hate it if he had to go to the toilet with a girl in the room, or get changed for PE.

most people want privacy from the opposite sex when vulnerable or in a state of undress - it's quite normal, and the males I know feel that way too.

Skyzalimit you have read just enough to misuse the language women have created to address domestic abuse but you clearly haven't understood it. We won't stop you, but don't be surprised if we don't censor our words in order to satisfy your flawed interpretation of sexual harassment or gaslighting.

Incidentally, you are the one who brought up your own sexuality. In a forum where the definition of lesbians as exclusively same-sex attracted females is extremely important to our many lesbian members. It's a definition which excludes all male people, whatever cosmetic surgeries they may have had in an attempt to more closely imitate the physiology of female person.

Male genitals were mentioned in an obvious attempt to clarify this definition, not to humiliate. And while I took your statement of being a lesbian at face value, the fact that you claim to feel humiliated when PP point out to you that male genitals and those who have them are excluded from the definition of lesbians, makes me wonder what your definition is.

I hold with all those who have correctly identified any attempt to redefine homosexuality as being based on a same-gender basis rather than a same-sex basis as unfettered homophobia.

So, do you accept homosexuality to be based on being exclusively same-sex attracted? That is, an attraction of a person born into one of the two human sex classes - the one capable of producing ova or the one capable of producing spermatozoa - to another person born into the same sex class.

If yes, then we can move on knowing that our definition matches and we have the same frame of reference. If not, then we can move on knowing that our definition does not match and we have a different frame of reference.

Then we can all get back to the subject of the thread: upholding the existing legal rights of our female children.

Absolutely and it's something we were at great pains to stress to OCC - that this effects boys too. Children have a right to body privacy from the opposite sex and that right is written in law. End of discussion as far as I can see. Or at least it should be.

And recounting totally irrelevant adult paedophile stories is irresponsible dog whistle transphobia

One story involved an adult male preying on adult females and was included merely to illustrate my point that as males who fall under the trans umbrella commit crimes against females as the exact same rate as all other males, there are of course countless stories of this happening. But the example was less relevant to the thread, I grant you that.

However, one story involved a teenager preying on a juvenile female with both encompassing the exact extent of the ages of our high school students and the attack happened in a toilet, so entirely relevant.

Furthermore, the latter story involved a trans-identifying male teenager who would not have had the opportunity to attack a female child in a toilet if the exact same trans inclusion policies that are discussed here in this thread about trans inclusion policies in school toilets had not been adopted.

Dismissing either story as dogwhistle transphobia gives away a lot about your attitude towards females though, specifically female victims of male violence.

Agree Charley.

And sky if you feel sexually harassed at the mere mention of the word penis how do you think those young girls will feel being forced to share private spaces with the owner of a penis? And not only being forced to share a space but to be told they are bigots if they complain because girls can have penises too.

Thank you for the compliments and can I just add that my DS would have been utterly mortified to find themselves changing or using the toilet in the presence of their female school mates. They don't want anything to do with mixed-sex facilities either nor do they want trans-identifying females included in their male-only facilities.

Stella Creasy. Let's call her out here.

Yes, let's. I watched that unfold live on Twitter.

Stella, when replying to a mother whose 11-year-old daughter had been subjected to a 14-year-old boy masturbating in front of her due to school self-ID policies, had nothing to say but it's a shame about peer on peer abuse but there we go, la la la.

Is this the one, Lang?

twitter.com/TracyXXs/status/975370664763895808

CharlieParley

We won't agree because I think gender AND sex are both social constructs with material implications (as outlined in detail by academics Sara Ahmed, Lisa Blackman and others) and you don't.

I still think that agressively asking me if I would accept a penis is sexually harrassing. It's also policing of my body.

I think gender AND sex are both social constructs

fucking hell. and you've been pregnant you say? the level of delusion is staggering