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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anyone here not hate trans people?

217 replies

supermamabear · 06/02/2019 09:03

Just asking as I’m new to MN and appalled at the threads in here D:

OP posts:
SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/02/2019 21:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OlennasWimple · 06/02/2019 22:50

Things I hate:

  • shield bugs
  • mosquitoes
  • long grass that tickles my legs when I'm walking in it and makes it feel like ants are crawling on me
  • misogyny
  • grapefruit

Things I don't hate:

  • everything else

HTH

OccasionallyIncomplet · 06/02/2019 23:06

Why is 'cis' not an acceptable word? It is a legitimate description with etymology from Latin?

Melroses · 06/02/2019 23:06

Shield bugs are cute Confused

Calvinsmam · 06/02/2019 23:07

I was told at the weekend by a white ‘queer’ ‘liberal’ man that he couldn’t understand why we needed female specific feminism as I probably had as much in common with a white trans woman as a black female.

My jaw hit the floor.

Calvinsmam · 06/02/2019 23:14

Why is 'cis' not an acceptable word?

Cis means you identify with the gender assigned to your sex.

I am a feminist. I believe that gender is a social construct that was applied to my sexed body in order for the patriarchy to maintain its hierarchy.
Gender is not an axis of oppression, gender is the oppression that I reject.
To say i identity with the gender that is assigned to my sex not only reinforces gender as an innate thing but also assumes an identity upon me that I have spent my whole life fighting.
To say I am a ‘cis’ woman denies me my identity and is as offensive to me as a trans woman finds someone calling them he.
If we start the conversation with ‘cis’ we have already conceded the main fight.
I am not cis. I do not have an innate gender.
I was born female, I have a personality and I have the gender that is inflicted on me by society.

The end.

PositivelyPERF · 06/02/2019 23:18

I’m not eloquent with words, OccasionallyIncomplet but this explanation by the poster BahHumbygge perfectly explains why using the word cis, in terms of women or men, is bullshit.

Cis
BahHumbygge
Cis and trans mean on this side of and on the other side of, respectively.

So, in organic chemistry, you can have different isomeric versions of the same molecule... that is the layout of the molecule can have differing configurations. Imagine those 3D stick things from chemistry lessons... if you place the red atoms in opposite corners, that's a trans molecule; if you place them on the same side, that's a cis molecule.

It can also apply to other spatial arrangements of things eg cisalpine/ transalpine. Cisalpine refers to on this side of the alps, from the perspective of Italy... so on the Italian side of the alps.

However, it is a fabrication that you can describe a spatial relationship between an empirical phenomenon (biological sex) and sociological invention (cultural gender).

BahHumbygge

Thinking about this further and what the organic chemistry analogy means for women is really offensive and essentialist from a radical feminist analysis, and paradoxical.

If you imagine the pair of functional groups arranged around a double carbon bond in a molecule being in either a cis or a trans configuration (see attachment), the pairing relationship must be of the same things (so say either ethyl groups, or methyl groups or hydrogen atoms or green blobs if you're not a chemist).

So what the transactivists are saying with regards to sex and gender is that femaleness (the state of being of the class that has large immotile gametes & can gestate, ie hardware) is exactly the same as femininity (the set of traits, socialisation and cultural stereotypes that have come to be associated with the female sex, ie software).

Not only is this essentialist bullshit, what feminists have been fighting for decades to overcome... that girls and women must like pretty sparkly things, be sweet and deferential and be socialised into the caring and subservient role in society, it is non-sensical. Transwomen are at the same time claiming that femaleness and femininity are exactly the same thing by applying the cis-trans model to sex & gender, yet contradicting themselves by being biologically male and claiming femininity. Femininity cannot be both inextricable from femaleness AND possible to transgender into from a male bodied person. Transgenderism is an impossible chimera. You need an empirical thing on which to hang the concept of gender. Once you attempt to cross genders, you invalidate the very claims you were making in the first place.

Female =/= femininity. Therefore there cannot be any ciswomen and there cannot be any transwomen.

Transwoman is an oxymoron. Ciswoman is an oxymoron. The only way to be a woman is through biology.

(image source: www.chemguide.co.uk/basicorg/isomerism/geometric.html)

MrsBertBibby · 06/02/2019 23:24

Oh I like both of those, Calvin and PERF.

PositivelyPERF · 06/02/2019 23:35

The credit is not mine, It was written by a poster known as BahHumbygge, but it was the first time I read something that fully explains the nonsense of using cis to describe humans. I think it’s brilliant.

Calvinsmam · 06/02/2019 23:39

It’s great perf I don’t ‘do the science’, as my grandma used to say, so thats really helpful.

Trousering · 06/02/2019 23:47

Genius Bahhummbygge

Skyzalimit · 07/02/2019 06:44

I don't hate trans people. I'm a lesbisn cisgender woman. I agree with you about the shocking level of hate in here. #LWithTheT

Ereshkigal · 07/02/2019 06:48

"Don't believe in your personal ideology" does not equal "hate".

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 07/02/2019 07:25

ereshkigal
Put it beautifully

feelingverylazytoday · 07/02/2019 07:30

why is cis not an acceptable word
It's part of the terminology created by a group of people that are attempting to impose their own beliefs on society as a whole.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 07/02/2019 07:45

Cis as an additional unnecessary term to ‘other’ the norm.

Bekabeech · 07/02/2019 07:56

I don't hate Trans people. I have stayed at ones house, I actually admire and respect some. I find some intimidating and bullying. I am horrified by the shutting down of debate, and the fact that as a consequence some facts that people considering transitioning need to know aren't spoken about eg: the possible side effects of using Testosterone on female bodied people; or even more crucially the possible effects of puberty blockers on children.
I have used fabulous gender neutral toilets - but suspect that most places would provide them on the cheap and just relabel a ladies toilet. And of course we're not supposed to talk about perverts who claim to change gender and then use access to safe spaces to take photos of young girls in toilets or worse.
Or any of the other issues. And the private lives of a lot of those who lead the TRA debate do not bear looking into.

And a key aspect of Cis and Trans in chemistry is that they are not the same. The Cis and Trans form of various molecules can have very different biological properties, as they just won't "fit" in the enzyme etc. that they need to work with. Its a bit like having a key shaped like an F, if the middle prong was bent by 180 degrees, it would no longer fit the lock. (There is a metaphor here with why Lesbians don't want to have sex with Transwomen.)

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