Telegraph article 'NHS trans row as men get access to women's wards if they identify as female'

[R0wantrees]

(extract)

"Hospitals routinely allow male patients to share female wards if they self-identify as women, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

Despite official guidance intended to eliminate mixed sex wards, none of the NHS trusts in England require a patient to have begun transition for them to be treated as their preferred sex, according to responses to more than 100 Freedom of Information requests.

One trust even advises staff to consult with the transgender patient if a female victim of sexual assault objects to sharing facilities with someone who may be biologically and legally male.

The NHS is unable to track how many transgender people are accommodated on wards for the opposite sex because data systems record them as their “preferred” sex.

The Department of Health’s “elimination of mixed sex wards” guidance upon which individual trusts must base their policies says that “men and women should not have to share sleeping accommodation or toilet/bathroom facilities”. But the document adds, “except where it is in the overall best interests of the patient or reflects their patient choice”.

As a result, a physically intact male has the right to choose to be treated on a ward for women that is simultaneously declared to be single sex." (continues)

The Telegraph has been contacted by a nurse at a city hospital with a report of a patient identifying as a transgender woman who appeared to become sexually aroused on a female ward, causing distress to a group of elderly patients.

The incident raises concerns about the lack of “equality impact assessments” (EIAs) that should be undertaken by law to determine the effect on all groups that may be affected by transgender policy changes. EIAs seen by The Telegraph appear to have taken into account the impact only on transgender patients rather than on others who should also be considered because of their sex, age or religion." (continues)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/10/nhs-trans-row-men-get-access-womens-wards-identify-female/

This will have serious implications now it is becoming public knowledge.
see important article by Anne Harper-Wright & thread:

October 2018 'Sex, Gender & the NHS
Part 1: The “Single-Sex Hospital Wards” that have always been a lie'

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396859-Weve-been-lied-to-about-Single-SEX-wards-since-2010

SlowlyShrinking I was wondering if this had come up with the BMA, RCN or other bodies representing HCPs.

I have a friend who is a senior nurse and her response was very similar to yours.

The policies that have been written seem not (as usual) to have been written by people who manage and understand the needs of patients.

Ah. It's so tedious. Now we have, women are just as bad as men so what difference does it make?

And poor transwomen being abused for what bed they're in when they're at their most ill and vulnerable.

Now we have, women are just as bad as men so what difference does it make?

And poor transwomen being abused for what bed they're in when they're at their most ill and vulnerable.

D eny
A ttack
RVO Reverse Victim and Offender

I forgot that all men are rapist and all men are sexually aroused 24 hours a day.

Well, Dosmamas, the fact that in the palliative care hospital in the US, where the comatose woman was impregnated, most men there were not rapists and quite certainly not even the rapist himself was sexually aroused 24 hours a day really puts my mind at ease.
If only someone would have put lipstick on the rapist and taught him to walk 'like a woman' - then he probably would not have raped the comatose patient at all.

Why do I suspect that whatever walking like a woman is I'm probably not doing it?

I'm decidedly not a fan of GH but I have a much higher opinion of her now after she was brave enough to speak out on this issue.

I can't believe that people think that the dignity and safety of women doesn't matter. Well unfortunately I can considering the tripe that the TRA and their supporters spout, and the general attitude towards women, but people are so vulnerable when in hospital.

I was on a single sex adult ward for a week after an accident. I was only 16 and the youngest on the ward by forty years or so. I was so ill and so spaced out on painkillers that I barely knew what I was doing and wouldn't have been able to defend myself in the event of any creep deciding to expose himself or worse. I had my period while in hospital and it was pretty obvious that I did because it showed on my gown. I knew that I wasn't right but couldn't do much about it because I was so heavily drugged. I remember having to walk past male visitors in those awful gowns to go to the toilet and feeling so helpless and vulnerable. It was a horrible experience but if I'd been on a mixed sex ward I'd have demanded to go home no matter how ill I was or that I was still recovering. The trauma and loss of dignity would have been far greater.

Also I've worked in care and convincing most of the elderly women to go to hospital when they badly needed medical treatment was difficult enough . I can guarantee you that if the majority of them knew that they were going to be put on mixed sex wards they'd have chosen to stay at home until they were on their death beds. Their dignity and feeling safe at home was more important to them than medical treatment. Mixed sex wards risk not only the dignity and safety of women but also sometimes their very lives.

As far as I can tell nobody wants mixed sex wards other than a. insane TRAs, b. very naive young people, and c. people who think it will save money and don't give a shit about the impact on patients.

As far as I can tell nobody wants mixed sex wards other than a. insane TRAs, b. very naive young people, and c. people who think it will save money and don't give a shit about the impact on patients.

This. MEN don't want mixed sex wards any more than women. I've recently had male relatives in hospital, thankfully on single sex wards. Virtually no-one wants mixed sex, and given the small number of trans people it's probably possible to just have them in the small number of separate rooms they have in most circumstances. The ward my relative was on had a number of 'open' single sex bays (not visible to other bays) and a number of individual rooms (the rowdier patients were put in there as far as I could tell) all joined by a long corridor.

angry
Nailed it

No one wants it.

Their dignity and feeling safe at home was more important to them than medical treatment. Mixed sex wards risk not only the dignity and safety of women but also sometimes their very lives.

The NHS has a responsibility before changing policy to consult these groups.

The non binary crowd will be pushing for mixed sex wards for everyone like they do for toilets so they don't ever have to "identity as male/female gender".

The non binary crowd will be pushing for mixed sex wards for everyone like they do for toilets so they don't ever have to "identity as male/female gender".

YY The push for 'non-binary' rights blows any possiblity of single sex provision out of the window.

Non-Binary can insist they are neither male or female or both male and female. Nothing other than the individual's assertion of their identity.

City of New York announced New Year's Eve that people born there can have reissued birth certificates with self identified sex marker M F or X (Non Binary) changed without Drs or others' involvement.
There is no medical basis for non-binary of course.

Its 'access all areas.'

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3465241-New-York-legalises-changing-birth-certs-to-M-F-or-X

I’m just astonished at dosmamos post right after pandamonium explained what a transwoman had done to her in hospital
This is about autogynephilia dos, get your head out of your arse and think about how many vulnerable women are being put at risk by this ridiculous policy.

I was in a mixed ward for reasons which I understood and accepted. Except that one of the three men (an unhygienic smelly mess) was unable to stop using language and leering at the young woman next to him. Two gentlemen who I hoped would address this sat quiet and then laughed and joined in. There was no assault here, just lack of respect.
We had a treatment which required us to drink lots and pee out what the hospital had put in. We had to remain in bed. Well no we were allowed to visit the shared toilets ( faeces on walls) before we should walk.
Behaviour of the men became so frightening that they were all moved to another room. Quiet night for us!
I would think a Trans woman would know how to show respect in this situation but just in case would rather not share with her. There are side wards that answer for this dilemma.

I've seen that so many times that at this point I suspect that TRAs post "yeah well who gives a shit about your trauma?" comments right after someone recounts a painful experience on purpose. Twisting the knife, as it were, and reminding everyone that women are always at the bottom of the pecking order.

There's something gleefully sadistic about it.

There's something gleefully sadistic about it.

I've seen it too. I'm not easily shocked, but the blatant gloating does bring one up short.

This is about autogynephilia dos, get your head out of your arse and think about how many vulnerable women are being put at risk by this ridiculous policy.

Sue Donym's article, 'The Elephant In The Room'

(extract)
Truly a tortured metaphor, but let’s give the elephant a name.

That name is ‘autogynephilia’.

I can hear you now, ‘auto-whata-philia?’. The word is difficult to get your mouth around. It is also a verboten word. People whisper it in dark alleys level verboten. Like ‘Voldemort’ in Harry Potter. The Elephant That Must Not Be Named. If you say it out loud, someone will arrive at your door and brand the four scarlet letters on your forehead ‘TERF’. I guarantee it. Even I avoided saying the word in my original article, Inauthentic Selves, which had a section on autogynephilia end up on the cutting room floor, because I wanted the broader LGBT community to be able to read about the way that LGBT activism has been austroturfed.

But I bet you’re thinking ‘I’ve never heard of these autoawhataphias’.

Are you a member of the LGBT community? If you are, surely you know a male to female transitioner. They are in their late thirties to their early fifties, they call themselves a ‘lesbian’, and they wear clothing that’s inappropriate for their age. They’re ex-cop, military, or most often, work in something involving computers.

I can see your head nodding behind the screen. Congratulations, you’ve seen autogynephilia.

But what is autogynephilia? What is the elephant? How is it relevant to the LGBT community? And why is no one pointing it out?" (continues)
medium.com/@sue.donym1984/the-elephant-in-the-room-dc822144a81b

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3473261-The-Elephant-in-the-Room-is-male-autogynephilia-by-Sue-Donym

R0wantrees

HQ deleted the elephant in the room thread.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3473261-The-Elephant-in-the-Room-is-male-autogynephilia-by-Sue-Donym

Apologies, that thread has been deleleted for 'not being civil'

It had a lot of links to reputable experts including Dr Az Hakeem.
www.priorygroup.com/consultants/dr-az-hakeem

and was relevent to the experience of 'Michele' a transwidow interviewed on R4 Woman's Hour last week. She described working within the NHS and with people who were transgender. She also identified that her husband demonstrated autogynaphillia & how this impacted her and their children.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3473080-Powerful-R4Womans-Hour-transwidow-interview-with-a-woman-describing-the-devastating-impact-of-her-husbands-transition-on-her-their-marriage-and-children

sorry Datun X post.

If you say it out loud, someone will arrive at your door and brand the four scarlet letters on your forehead ‘TERF’

I'd best go out eh? Shall pull my bobble hat down over my forehead.

I've seen that so many times that at this point I suspect that TRAs post "yeah well who gives a shit about your trauma?" comments right after someone recounts a painful experience on purpose. Twisting the knife, as it were, and reminding everyone that women are always at the bottom of the pecking order.
Which in itself is a helpful reminder not to bargain with them or bring up past trauma as a justification for saying no. We just say no. They don't give a monkey's what anyone else has been through anyway.
If that kind of justification is offered, it's for the benefit or bystanders, lurkers and the uninformed. And nobody should feel she has to share intimate details of her past to justify saying no to TRAs.

So we are not allowed to talk about autogynephilia?
we are not allowed to talk about the sinister underlying agenda of the trans activists?
we are not allowed to educate people so that they know what to really going on and can protect themselves?

Protecting adult human females from sexual exploitation by men masquerading as women is uncivil
what the fuck