Telegraph article 'NHS trans row as men get access to women's wards if they identify as female'

[R0wantrees]

(extract)

"Hospitals routinely allow male patients to share female wards if they self-identify as women, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

Despite official guidance intended to eliminate mixed sex wards, none of the NHS trusts in England require a patient to have begun transition for them to be treated as their preferred sex, according to responses to more than 100 Freedom of Information requests.

One trust even advises staff to consult with the transgender patient if a female victim of sexual assault objects to sharing facilities with someone who may be biologically and legally male.

The NHS is unable to track how many transgender people are accommodated on wards for the opposite sex because data systems record them as their “preferred” sex.

The Department of Health’s “elimination of mixed sex wards” guidance upon which individual trusts must base their policies says that “men and women should not have to share sleeping accommodation or toilet/bathroom facilities”. But the document adds, “except where it is in the overall best interests of the patient or reflects their patient choice”.

As a result, a physically intact male has the right to choose to be treated on a ward for women that is simultaneously declared to be single sex." (continues)

The Telegraph has been contacted by a nurse at a city hospital with a report of a patient identifying as a transgender woman who appeared to become sexually aroused on a female ward, causing distress to a group of elderly patients.

The incident raises concerns about the lack of “equality impact assessments” (EIAs) that should be undertaken by law to determine the effect on all groups that may be affected by transgender policy changes. EIAs seen by The Telegraph appear to have taken into account the impact only on transgender patients rather than on others who should also be considered because of their sex, age or religion." (continues)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/10/nhs-trans-row-men-get-access-womens-wards-identify-female/

This will have serious implications now it is becoming public knowledge.
see important article by Anne Harper-Wright & thread:

October 2018 'Sex, Gender & the NHS
Part 1: The “Single-Sex Hospital Wards” that have always been a lie'

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396859-Weve-been-lied-to-about-Single-SEX-wards-since-2010

FFS, it’s not fearmongering if it’s already happening. It’s reporting on events that are happening and policies that are in place. Otherwise known as the news.

I see that Haddock's response on Twitter is a 'this never happens' approach - he's (a) insisting that in all his long experience, no transwoman has ever assaulted a woman on a hospital ward and (b) that any stories about it happening are lies.

It's distressing watching people defend the indefensible. But a few short months ago, this wouldn't even be discussed.

I have checked our policies at work. Christ some of the patient leaflets say Stonewall on the back of them.

Here's a worthwhile task ... check your local hospital, urgent treatment centre, GP clinic leaflets .. and report back on any leaflets authored by Stonewall.

We have to hold Stonewall to account for this utter disregard of safeguarding for girls and women.

Good point Datun. Coverage is 'progress'.

JackyHolyoake
That's a very good idea

Good point Datun. It certainly wouldn’t have been in the Telegraph, let alone the front page.

Stonewall. Bloody Stonewall! More people need to wake up to the fact that they are a lobbying group, lobbying for specific people. How have they got so much influence? And is there anything we can do about it? I'm furious!

And with the NHS and our stupid bloody politicians.

There are many serious implications including that females who identify are not called for smear tests (and males who identify as transwomen are), Blood donations incorrectly labelled etc

Blood tests and urine tests as well.
It is important to know what sex a sample relates to on many tests.
Diagnostic decisions are made on the basis of these test results.

Wrong sex = wrong result = incorrect diagnosis = inappropriate treatment.

Who is at fault here?

What actually happens when TRAs go to the doctor's to discuss potential conditions where biological sex is relevant? Is it literal violence to suggest a transwomen may need testing for prostate cancer?

I've just ploughed through my local trust's Inclusion Strategy 2018-2021 trying to find whether they have an official stance on this, and found that one of their aims is to consult the transgender community so that they can write a trans policy. Their new Equality and Diversity lead has just been named (not sure they had one before) so one of this weekend's tasks will be to write to him and suggest that women are consulted as well as the local trans community.

Data. Is. Unavailable.

Because patients are recorded in their preferred gender. So you can’t even access accurate data on how many men are in women’s wards.

This is not accidental.

Good on Gloria hunniford. I reckon she’s a mumsnetter..

What actually happens when TRAs go to the doctor's to discuss potential conditions where biological sex is relevant? Is it literal violence to suggest a transwomen may need testing for prostate cancer?

Remember the trans man who had CKD with the lack of intervention from relevant medical professionals because of the patient's wishes?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3236991-Biology-matters-in-medicine-medicine-failing-trans-individuals

I see the woke brigade on Twitter's response is variously 'Pack of lies', 'Mumsnetters will have made this up', 'Bigots!' and so on.

Alongside 'It's been happening for years and there have been no problems...'

Here's a worthwhile task ... check your local hospital, urgent treatment centre, GP clinic leaflets .. and report back on any leaflets authored by Stonewall.

As posted on the other thread, Veritas have just stated one of the leading advisors for Stonewall has no understanding of safeguarding practice, and the implication is that they are not capable of such understanding. It has led to a massive breach and inquiry in that advisor's previous role in the Green Party.

Stonewall's safeguarding reputation has just been blown out of the water by yesterday's Veritas report. Who of the Stonewall advisors is properly safeguarding trained and to what standard? Are we talking the standard of an average teaching assistant? Nurse? Senior Leadership position?

Who is responsible for cross checking and ensuring that their advice and policies is in keeping at all times with national safeguarding standards, training, policy and practice?

What are the qualifications of those advisors to be aware of and able to advise on policy affecting the specific needs of non LGBT+ people, particularly vulnerable adults and children, where policy change impacts on them?

Where those advisors are not qualified to advise, or where Stonewall advice conflicts with standard policy, practice and procedure, where has this been recorded? How has it been addressed? Where is the evidence of the named safeguarding leads in each work place raising that the 'new' advice is in conflict or not in the interests of all service users?

arranbubonicplague
I'm not a Python fan but they're right again. The patient you linked to is the Black Knight. ("It's only a flesh wound") as that person's kidneys fail, shopping around for a hospital that will continue testosterone...madness

another one whose mouth actually opened when I saw the word "men" in the headline.

it has to be said. thanks Telegraph.

I have checked our policies at work. Christ some of the patient leaflets say Stonewall on the back of them.

Just checked my local hospital. It’s a “Stonewall Diversity Champion”, whatever the fuck that means.

I continue to be astonished at the ability of the TRAs and allies to believe that no man would simply say 'I identify as a woman' in order to gain access to a women's ward.

They will never, ever, (of course) admit the remotest possibility that a TW could be predatory or autogynephilic ('no true trans...'), pushing constantly the 'just oppressed, vulnerable people who want to get on with their lives' mantra.

Safeguarding and confidentiality policies

Make it clear that a student coming out as lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans does not constitute a safeguarding risk and the information should be treated as confidential

Explicitly state that disclosing someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity, whether they are staff or students, without their consent is a breach of confidentiality. This includes disclosures to a student’s parents or carers
From Stonewall's advice to secondary schools

Make it clear that a student coming out as lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans

False equivalence of sexuality with trans there. Clever.

That's the game, innit, Vicky. Conflate with LGB at every useful opportunity, and then when anyone expresses concern at your homophobic behaviour, make a big fuss about how the stupid transphobes are confusing sexual orientation and gender identity and that they are totally separate, even though you've been lumping them together for cover all along.

Quite a trick if you can pull it off. Helps if you have lots of lovely funding and the ear of the powerful.

#MostOppressedEver

VickyEadie
Exactly. It's infuriating. The teacher will be taught to "signpost" mermaids or the like, keeping the parents in the dark.
Not the same as being gay at all.
Confused children being sold a panacea by big money lobby groups - not really the same as some gay youth group (of which there never were that many anyway)
Now hospitals are lying and saying they have single sex wards when they actually have single gender identity wards (assuming all the women identify with this gender stuff!)
Stonewall have a lot to answer for.

Make it clear that a student coming out as lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans does not in itself constitute a safeguarding risk and the information should be treated as confidential

I’m fine with this if only it were followed by:

“All children should be allowed to wear any uniform they choose, and other students should be encouraged to refer to transgender children by their preferred pronouns and name. Bullying is a serious concern for all LGBT youth coming out and must be monitored for closely, and students disciplined for any and all bullying behavior. As transgender children physically remain members of their birth sex, trans children should be allowed their choice of single sex accomodation associated with their birth sex or alternative gender neutral accomodation. This policy balances the privacy and safety of all students.”

Hi everyone - new poster on here; I'm a man and I hope you don't mind me coming on here and commenting. I've been reading the feminist threads particularly the transgender comments for a few weeks now after my wife said I might find them interesting and my goodness they have been an eye opener.
On the topic of this thread there should be no mixed wards and adult human females ( women ) and adult human males(men) are entitled to their dignity and privacy not to mention safety.
I'd like to just say in response to the poster above who asked when are the men going to get on board and support us that (for what its worth) I for one am right beside you. I don't think there's much I can do as an older man but I will be supporting my wife and daughter in any way I can to help achieve safe women only spaces.