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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman in PVS for 10 years raped, gives birth

224 replies

VickyEadie · 04/01/2019 20:10

www.lifenews.com/2019/01/04/woman-comatose-for-a-decade-gives-birth-unexpectedly-police-launch-sexual-assault-investigation/

Men are appalling.

OP posts:
Melanippe · 05/01/2019 14:35

Awww Anti, you feel better now?

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/01/2019 15:11

Isn't it funny that you can say, "Humans are appalling" and people will nod sagely and agree that our species does tend to make things worse and not one person feels compelled to jump up and down and say that they have been unfairly tarnished because they have done some recycling this week and travelled by bike?

Quite.

TeeJay1970 · 05/01/2019 15:11

Bernard

If you believe that it must follow that you believe men should not be allowed to work with women and children.

Should be all male teachers be sacked?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/01/2019 15:13

Men are appalling

OP at no time said ALL men are appalling

Not NAMALT is a dumb fucking thing to say when the original OP didnt say it was all men

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 05/01/2019 15:20

Should be all male teachers be sacked?

nope.

in situations where children are vulnerable (such as in schools or nurseries, where young children are away from their parents), standard safeguarding procedures should be followed. Then the benefit to children of receiving care from members of both sexes can be successfully balanced with the increased risk to children posed by men.

I happen to believe that SMALT due to nurture, and part of redeeming the male sex is letting little boys see men in caring roles.

TeeJay1970 · 05/01/2019 15:22

Should a male teacher ever be left alone to teach a class?

TeeJay1970 · 05/01/2019 15:25

10% of London's population is black.

59% of gun crime is committed by blacks.

I challenge anybody to say it.

AssassinatedBeauty · 05/01/2019 15:27

This is tedious and a massive derail. @TeeJay1970 have you got anything to say about the OPs post that is actually about vulnerable women being raped?

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist · 05/01/2019 15:36

My feelings are irrelevant. I’m just questioning the utility of such a statement. I mean presumably the only men who are likely to feel shame are men who wouldn’t rape? In which case what’s the point?

I happen to agree with you rape is a problem and this particular example is vile, although I struggle to imagine a circumstance where rape is never not vile.

I tell you what motivates men to care about the issue is empathy, sympathy and compassion. Shame or misplaced guilt for something that on an individual basis they have absolutely no control over just discourages engagement on the issue.

It’s that engagement that men are lacking at the moment, as one thing I think it IS fair to say is that men as a class are lacking an awareness of the scale of the problem.

TeeJay1970 · 05/01/2019 15:40

I absolutely agree 100% with all that has been said about this awful crime. I have no words to express my disgust at the men who raped her; I have no words to express my sympathy for her and the child.
As for those who seek to minimise or excuse this crime, they are a huge part of the problem.
Not for on second do I hesitate to agree with what has been said about this crime.
I pointed out that the reason the press were saying “possible” is due to legal reasons but because they felt it was not abuse.
I also pointed out that if people say “All men are like this” then a perfectly reasonable response to this inaccurate statement is to say “Not all men are like this”. The phrase “Men are appalling” implies “all” if the OP didn’t means this she should have selected her words more carefully.

I apologise for my use of HTH. I agree it was flippant and uncalled for it was right that I was pulled up for it. Interestingly - other than the case itself - the most despicable thing said on this thread was about the use of bromine in the water supply. This vile and dystopian idea was not commented on where my use of HTH was. Funny that.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/01/2019 15:41

i think it IS fair to say is that men as a class are lacking an awareness of the scale of the problem

I think that is fair to say

BUT

How come Women are aware and men arent?

Not trying to be snide or have a gotcha moment...i just honestly don't understand why men are apparently unable to work this out

RussellSprout · 05/01/2019 15:43

TeeJay's post is not a 'tedious and massive derail'. They are trying to prove a point, that of generalising from the actions of a minority to the whole of that class of individuals. AKA prejudice.

The fact that she has a point is illustrated by the way in which you feel compelled to describe it as a 'tedious and massive derail.'

The only one who's derailed this post is the OP who started it all by saying 'men are appaling'.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/01/2019 15:44

if the OP didn’t means this she should have selected her words more carefully

Or not, as its her thread, she didnt say all and she is obviously shocked and possibly not in the right frame of mind to be polite and say Not All Men...when she didnt say All Men in the first place

RussellSprout · 05/01/2019 15:50

So if someone said 'Blacks are appaling' or 'muslims are appaling' or 'disabled people are appaling' are you honestly telling me that wouldn't be offensive, because it implies ALL blacks/muslims/disabled people?

TeeJay1970 · 05/01/2019 15:50

Or not... fair point.

In that case post 2 was justified.

MarshmallowSnowDon · 05/01/2019 15:53

“There is no way the staff didn't know. No way. I cannot believe it. I worked as a carer, you quickly learn every intimate detail about a person, especially those who cannot move for themselves. Bedsores happen often and grow quickly. Cleaning and checking should be happening regularly, with notes being written every time.

What on earth is happening in that care home facility? The entire operation is suspect, not just the male staff. This is awful on so many levels.“

I think you are almost certainly right there. Look at the cesspit that is the national public broadcaster the BBC. How many people there knew about Jimmy Saville? How many not only knew but actively helped covered it up to ensue he would never face justice in his life time?

Look at the mass rapes of vulnerable and middle class girls across the north of England, thousands and thousands raped pimped and tortured on an industrial scale for many many years and actively covered up by councillors, police and social workers.

Men commit the vast majority of these sorts of crimes to be sure but women are often actually involved in covering it up too. Most people, both men and women, just do whatever is in their own interests at any given time and rationalise it in their own minds afterwards. BBC stars, Hollywood stars, councillors, police officers, social workers. I see no reason to believe that most care workers would be any different.

When these things are exposed they usually make sure high up people who knew are never prosecuted. So most involved never face justice. How many police officers or councillors who knew about the grooming gangs have ever been punished? Did you ever watch Times journalist Andrew Norfolk’s talk about exposing the grooming gangs and how much effort it was to get anything done? m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7P7ih1GuuQ

TeeJay1970 · 05/01/2019 15:54

You might not get a reply to that Russell.

DishranawaywiththeSpoon · 05/01/2019 15:55

I read an article that said it was an alleged rape ffs. There's absolutely no doubt that a rape has occurred! The question is purely who has done it.

The OP didn't say all men are appalling, men as a class are appalling. I don't actually see many men either trying to combat this by targeting the men who rape.

Most of the time it's just "I'm not like this" but not enough not like this to actually talk about the issue of rape.

If posters want people to stop saying things like that about men then they need to devote their energies to stopping men doing things like this. No one ever mentions that it is the men who rape, and are violent towards women who are to blame.

birdsdestiny · 05/01/2019 15:56

You know what if suddenly blonde overweight 40 something women were committing 97 % of violent sexual crimes I really really hope I would say what the fuck is wrong with blond women, what on earth is going on and how can we stop it rather than but its not meeee.

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist · 05/01/2019 15:58

I’m not an authority by any means Rufus so I may be wrong but it’s when things hit home we tend to notice it more. Don’t ask me why, but in my personal life people tend to confide in me things, the number of female friends, lovers etc who have opened up about rape/abuse etc is just sadly too vast to count.

This ISN’T the experience of most men, and I think this counts towards experiences of general misogyny also. I’ve had discussions with mates (men in this case) who do think feminists are man haters and think everything is overblown or that sexism either doesn’t exist or is negligible. I’ll tell them to go find the 10 women they are closest too and ask them, not about rape btw! Just things like catcalling or not being taken seriously professionally, or maybe even being groped in public. The few who have done it will come back with a bit of a shift in attitude.

I guess what I’m saying is men and women don’t talk to one another enough, I mean on a personal level.

OrdinaryGirl · 05/01/2019 15:58

Superbly put, @birdsdestiny !

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/01/2019 16:01

In that case post 2 was justified

No it wasnt...how on earth have you got that from my post Grin

Im saying she didnt have to select her words more carefully

She didnt say all men

Therefore not all men isn't justified

Any way...i think im adding to the derailing of the OPs post, so ill stop

BlackPrism · 05/01/2019 16:03

Can they not somehow do DNA matching with the child and all male workers from summer 2018? I'm sure that the innocent ones would be happy to volunteer DNA.

DishranawaywiththeSpoon · 05/01/2019 16:03

anti i think its bs that men arent aware of the problem. They do know but they just don't care to listen. Statistics about the number women who get raped are everywhere.

On the topic of NAMALT I do actually know men who know a lot about the scale of the problem, the issues and care and are vocal about it. However it is very few who are genuinely vocal. How come they know and care, they have been exposed in the same way as others. Why are there so many men who ignore it and pretend they don't? Why would you feel shame or guilt about something that you would never commit and never consider commiting.

MarshmallowSnowDon · 05/01/2019 16:05

@RussellSprout. Yes most men don’t do these things and are also disgusted at these crimes, but the vast majority of the tiny minority who do commit these sort of crimes are men. But I agree that it is not right to say “men are xyz” or “all men”. But when people are angry (and rightfully so) words can get a bit heated with little thought. So while I fully acknowledge that you are right, might I suggest that perhaps this particular thread isn’t the best place for a sanctimonious language policing lecture? But then I’m a UKIP supporter and I guess that automatically makes me a bigot so what the hell do I know.