Debbie Hayton and Posie Parker on Matthew Wright, TalkRadio between 1pm and 2pm **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

[MrsSnippyPants]

twitter.com/debbiehayton/status/1070231803087200256?s=21

I have read the thread thanks - thanks also for the passive aggressive reply.

Oh and btw LangCleg I am have been on MN, for many years and not new to this chat or debate either. But don't let that stop you.

AdamBede
Debbie has been a regular poster on Mumsnet FWR for a long time as well as many of us having met with and listened to her speak at Women's meetings etc this year.

Debbie has sought / chosen to take up offers of writing and speaking on a range of mainstream media platforms and as a science teacher has always stressed her commitment to nuanced discussion and critical thinking.

If you are inclined towards despair, there are many other reasons to do so.
Perhaps see what has happened to academics who ask questions of trans-ideology & its impact for safeguarding & women's rights, especially females such as Prof Rosa Freedman who has 'put her head above the parapet' to discuss the law this week (her specialism)?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3443107-Shocking-bullying-of-gender-critical-law-professor-Rosa-Freedman

This is the Feminism & Women's Rights board.

Then you'll know that women on FWR aren't a hive mind. Some of us are ok with some MTF people in female spaces, some are not.

And you don't know that women have never had a problem with it before now.

You do know that there is a name change facility on MN right? Which means I might actually have been involved in this debate before, and be familiar with Debbie's input here and elsewhere right? You are being extraordinarily patronising and not doing a very good job of putting up a reasoned, robust debate worthy of MN.

If Debbie and others like her, who have been living as transwomen/men for many years, stick their head above the parapet to listen and empathise with women's concerns, to be told their identities aren't valid, then the belief that trans people feel erased by this debate is bloody valid.

It kind of seems that you expect us to be quiet if we have issues and concerns because Debbie has made an effort to "empathise" with us? Maybe I've got that wrong?

Here's the thing. It's not all about Debbie.

Yes I know MN has a name change facility. I've been involved in this debate here for about four/five years. Who do you think you are?

as well as many of us having met with and listened to her speak at Women's meetings etc this year

Indeed. I count Debbie as a virtual friend and I like to think Debbie would say the same of me. We don't take the same position on sex segregation. So? But of course, no argument for those blundering into a thread to tell women off for speaking their minds other than to make it personal.

Absolutely MN is not a hive mind. Which is why I am allowed to object strongly to people taking an easy pop at a transwoman who has done a really difficult job of speaking from a place of reason and empathy in a toxic climate. Which is why I feel it is important that there are GC voices who support trans identities [Helen Lewis does for example] but who wish to debate the potential abuses of Self ID. But it doesn't seem to be about that at all.

What doesn't? Are we all required to toe a party line that you and Helen Lewis set?

Oh FFS - reading a thread and posting in disagreement is not blundering on. Don't be so bloody patronising and rude.

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Um, no Ereshkigal that is why i said it isn't.... a...hive...mind....

By calling you rude?

I like both Debbie and Helen Lewis as people. But like Lang, I disagree with them on single sex spaces. I don't think gender identity is more important than women's rights and feelings. Now you can argue about it if you want, but it's not going to go anywhere. I won't be told what position I can and can't take by self important randoms.

Absolutely MN is not a hive mind. Which is why I am allowed to object strongly to people taking an easy pop at a transwoman who has done a really difficult job of speaking from a place of reason and empathy in a toxic climate

Where is the 'easy pop'?
The vast majority of people on the thread are discussing issues raised by the interview respectfully from a place of reason. They may of course come to different conclusions.

Why name change to post this?

Why can't we all be like Helen Lewis?

Debbie comes on here, twitter, writes articles and can talk for herself. Worth listening to and reading, adds new perspective, interesting person.

No need to follow people like sheep in a herd though.

As am I RowanTrees thanks. But not getting much reason back so far. I am getting told I am blundering on, I haven't read the thread, why have I name changed etc [because I would rather keep my posts about family and stuff separate] Of course it is an easy pop - debbie is a transwomen who has offered herself up for debate here, I mean I am sure you are aware that most TW won't debate this at all. And I think you are shooting yourself in the foot if what you actually want is all trans people to use the bathrooms of their birth sex. Then it isn't about self ID at all, but about not recognising trans identities.

Which is why I feel it is important that there are GC voices who support trans identities [Helen Lewis does for example] but who wish to debate the potential abuses of Self ID. But it doesn't seem to be about that at all.

recent thread discussing Helen Lewis' comments on Woman's Hour. Helen was in the same segment as Bex Stinson (Head of Trans Inclusion Stonewall) who would not take part in a live discussion with her and Jane Garvey:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3428918-Womans-Hour-Tues-20-11-18-Why-is-the-current-debate-about-sex-and-gender-so-often-called-toxic-we-hear-from-Bex-Stinson-and-helenlewis

I know Rowantrees. Because i listened to it.

And read that thread too. The bloody irony of people telling me that we don't all have to have a hive mind and agree with Helen Lewis whilst seeming to object to me disagreeing here. A low point of MN debate.

Of course it is an easy pop - debbie is a transwomen who has offered herself up for debate here, I mean I am sure you are aware that most TW won't debate this at all.

Debbie has been part of discussions here (which you say you're aware of) over a long period of time.
She joined the thread which was discussing the interview on TalkRadio she was part of.
If Nick Duffy had done the same people would have raised questions about his points.
So too Posie Parker (though she sadly can't)