Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

[drum123]

Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

Ereshkigal Thanks so much. It's heartbreaking and I'm sharing it

Ereshkigal, thanks from me too for the link to watch from abroad. Just watching now.

Happy to help. Glad you could both watch it.

I can't agree that someone with a GRC is female "for all practical purposes", KayM2. The GRC is a legal fiction and refers to gender, not sex. Having a GRC doesn't change its holder's sex.

I thought the very definition of a gender critical transsexual was that they didn't believe they are female.

I emailed and asked for it to be withdrawn. Meant what I said but not in the spirit.

I was shocked by the speed of deletion, makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining.

I think if I was to try to sum up male socialization in one phrase it might be "I have the right".

This is a thread to discuss the programme. Mumsnet welcomes all participants except if abusive or with an unacceptable agenda. I dont see an issue with a variety of views. Its good to debate. You cant just mid thread decide to exclude on the grounds of sex unless Mumsnet agrees.

There is a transwidows thread and I am glad it exists. Perhaps it should have a sticky at the top advising that contributors to that thread should contribute sensitively and should do so in sympathy with the difficulties experienced by transwidows. It is very common for groups who form on Mumsnet to hive off to another more private venue. I am in 2 similar groups and have found them really beneficial. It is actually a trick that Mumsnet is missing out on as if Facebook can do private groups then Mumsnet could do so.

Nope, women on a site called "Mumsnet" should not have to hive off into private forums in order for a focus on women to be maintained. The transwidows thread should indeed be treated respectfully so that the focus on them is maintained, but I really doubt that a sticky saying "don't be an arsehole and respect other people's boundaries" would make much difference to the people who regard women's boundaries as an unfair inconvenience to them.

Nobody is attempting to exclude on the basis of sex. But there are a number of us who think, given the venue of this thread on the programme, that it's entirely right to prioritise women's voices, particularly transwidows, who are rarely referenced in any of the various media on this topic.

The notion of keeping their testimonies and views hived off in a particular thread and not given a platform elsewhere, that keeps being pressed as an idea in response to those of us who want to amplify their voices, is startlingly oppressive, tbh.

Everyone is, of course, welcome to post on a public forum. There is no obligation, however, on the women who also post, to give weight and credence to a perspective which already has considerable platforms elsewhere.

I think giving a thread off and calling it ‘women only’ will be about as successful as labelling something ‘women’s shelter’, ‘women’s sport’, ‘women’s health’ or ‘women’s shortlist’.

The inexhaustible need for validation draws TRAs to anything labelled ‘women's’. It’s not a Keep Out, it’s an invitation.

Social media is never going to be a safe space to discuss really personal issues, is it? Even choosing opaque " user names" will never solve that

Why do you think social media is never a safe to discuss personal issues?

It is as anonymous as the platform allows.
It allows people to start a conversation,
to vent their feelings.

It is an opportunity to talk about all those subjects that might be awkward/distressing/taboo even to those closest to you.

Obviously, not all SM platforms are the same, a bit of discernment is needed.

If I was about to undergo a distressing gyne procedure, I would like to be able to seek out others in similar circumstances.

Without that connection we remain isolated and very much alone with our troubles.

Social media can be a safe space if you read the rules of the game before you join.

Thank you thank you thank you to the woman who gave the link to this video, just watched it and will be sharing it with others in NZ as its seems we have the exact same concerns - and very nearly following the same timeline. (Not sure if other kiwis agree)

Nobody is attempting to exclude on the basis of sex. But there are a number of us who think, given the venue of this thread on the programme, that it's entirely right to prioritise women's voices, particularly transwidows, who are rarely referenced in any of the various media on this topic.

This ^^

& before believing claims/suggestions otherwise, its really worth reading what has actually being written.

This is a social media website.

No, it's not, it's a forum; not all mediums that facilitate discussion are social media. The function and etiquette are very different, and behaviour that might be de rigueur on a social media network, eg: Twitter, will be seen as the height of bad manners on a forum, eg: here. A small example would be the practice of @ing.

Sorry for the derail, I just see this argument crop up a lot in defence of certain types of behaviours on threads, and it makes my teeth itch.

Nobody has to engage with anybody ...

At all

Its weird to think that people should be forced to engage

There are one or two posters on mumsnet that I avoid and don't engage with...im sure they wouldnt care if they knew

And i would resent have to 'play' with them....its smacks of the playground

If you won't play with me I'm telling teacher! Or the human rights commission, possibly. Or West/North Yorkshire Police.

I used to be a dinner lady angry

Remind me to tell you the space ship story sometime

John and peter did not want billy to go on their spaceship...it was epic

Ooh and the 'there is already too many people playing' one

Not now obviously

The inexhaustible need for validation draws TRAs to anything labelled ‘women's’. It’s not a Keep Out, it’s an invitation.

There was an interesting recent short thread about a specific example of this.
The reasons why a women-only dancing group had been organised, the TRA response (Facebook) and the outcome:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3428829-Intersectionality-appropriation-explained-by-Lisa-re-Sally-Hines

Stella O'Malley Twitter comment:
twitter.com/stellaomalley3/status/1099402782896017408

threads discussing senior clinicians whistleblown concerns re Safeguarding and Duty of Care failings within GIDS service:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3515980-Times-article-Governor-quits-blinkered-Tavistock-clinic

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3516501-The-Gender-Identity-Development-Service-GIDS-report

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3515980-Times-article-Governor-quits-blinkered-Tavistock-clinic

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3516110-Tavistock-Governor-quits

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3510367-Tavistock-article-in-the-DM

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children

Ah R0, you're so good!

Also this shared by Stella.

twitter.com/EvaPoen/status/1099585941172355073

But of course, if research such as that attempted by James Caspian gets shut down, what hope is there?

But of course, if research such as that attempted by James Caspian gets shut down, what hope is there?

February 17th 2019 Telegraph interview:
'Why are we so scared to admit many people regret changing their gender?'
(extract)
"This week – as has been the case on some 50 previous occasions since he first made headlines for attempting to conduct research into people who had regretted changing their gender – James Caspian received a poignant email.
Confidentiality is paramount to Caspian, a trained psychotherapist, and so he is careful on which details he discloses. The note was written by a British woman who transitioned to a man after being sexually abused as a child. It was only much later, the correspondent informed him, that they realised it was a terrible mistake. The decision to transition was an attempt to escape the trauma of the abuse. But at the time, no professional who assisted in the process had attempted to delve into the reasons why.

His correspondent stressed there were others, too, in a similar situation whose voices needed to be heard. ‘This is a massive wheel that needs to start rolling,’ the letter said.

Next week marks 59-year-old Caspian’s latest attempt to do just that. On Tuesday, his barrister will conduct an oral hearing at the Royal Courts of Justice in his latest bid to secure a judicial review into a decision by Bath Spa University to ban a proposed piece of research on people reversing their gender reassignment surgery and transition." (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/scared-admit-many-people-regret-changing-gender/
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3510664-James-Caspian-interview-in-Sunday-Telegraph

Telegraph
February 19th 2019
'Proposal to research 'trans regret' rejected by university for fear of backlash, claims psychotherapist'
(extract)
On Tuesday, Mr Diamond told the court: "That is not academic judgment, that is terror on the streets of our universities."

Mr Caspian’s barrister, Paul Diamond, argued that the Bath Spa had rejected the proposal on the grounds that "engaging in a potentially politically incorrect piece of research carries a risk to the university" and was seeking a judicial review of the process.

However, the judge, Michael Kent QC, quashed their case, saying: “I entirely accept that there are important issues of freedom of expression. I just do not accept that, on the facts of this particular case, there is an arguable case made out.

He added that the application was brought too late after the university's decision, and said: "I accept that it could be said that this is pedantic and it is far removed from the underlying decision, but I can’t see any way round that."

Speaking afterwards, Mr Caspian told The Telegraph: “I think this sets a dangerous precedent in that research into sensitive areas will not be carried out because universities don’t want to take ownership.” (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/19/proposal-research-trans-regret-rejected-university-fear-backlash/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3512940-Caspian-loses-case-against-university