Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

[drum123]

Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

I get what you're saying Deep, but I wouldn't be here if my ex had got here first. I'm lucky he didn't work that out.

tinsel I've been thinking more about the points raised on last few pages of this thread.

I'm not asking where (for obvious reasons) but wondering if there is any safe, private, dignified space where women can go to discuss the things they might need to when their male partner begins 'exploring' his gender identity?
If there is supportive space anywhere that women who remain (at that point) with their partners so they have the possibility of beginning to speak freely solely with other women?

I'm not asking where (for obvious reasons) but wondering if there is any safe, private, dignified space where women can go to discuss the things they might need to when their male partner begins 'exploring' his gender identity? If there is supportive space anywhere that women who remain (at that point) with their partners so they have the possibility of beginning to speak freely solely with other women?

I have been wondering this myself. This very thread has made me see that there is a need for such a space, safe from unwanted male intrusions.

By way of an analogy there are vast numbers of threads on Mumsnet (unsuprisingly as its a parenting website) where mothers discuss things which I may have an opinion about (sometimes strong feelings), an alternative perspective etc. However I recognise that its not appropriate for me as someone carrying griefs about my own infertility to voice them there. It is of course my right, within the 'rules' of the platform. The reasons why its innapropriate are as much about me recognising & understanding why I may feel strongly at that point as understanding & respecting the the needs of the mothers posting.

flowers R0

I mean

Additionally there are spaces where I can go to share my personal experience about infertility, also ones specific to the cause (gyny cancer) and finally spaces where women with gyny cancer dealing with their infertility (eg younger women) can speak safely, privately and with dignity. The last space is very small but really important for women affected. Talking with women there was such an important part of my recovery. I understand (in a different context) the incredibly damaging effects of isolation on top of really difficult experiences & also the massive benefits of finding shared experieces and mutual support with women who have a shared profound understanding.

Exactly, R0 - and behooves us all to know when our presence is not neutral: it is an intrusion.

for you.

Acorninspring thank you. I'm quite a long way through in my own recovery. It seemed to me that there is an analogy though and I only share this to illustrate it.
I wouldn't have been able to voice such feelings, experiences in the past when it was all very raw.

Very true, R0wan. Wisdom and empathy should really be telling each of us when our experiences and voices are necessary. Its quite revealing when someone insists their voice is required everywhere just because they have the ability to speak.

Tinsel.

and behooves us all to know when our presence is not neutral: it is an intrusion.

Just as a final analogy (I don't want to derail this important thread), within gyny cancer supportive spaces there are very sensitive conflicting experiences. Many women's focus is on the impact on their children/grandchildren while some women are dealing with the griefs of infertility. These are both incredibly deeply felt and important parts of women's lives. Sometimes the perspectives colide but the underlying empathy and respect for the others' as well as the shared experiences as women with gyny cancer diagnosis usually prevents intrusion.

In that vein, mumsnet introducing protected groups (like that alternative big platform for mums has it) might be worth considering for MNHQ. (They probably have, I guess. Just throwing it out there).

I'm not asking where (for obvious reasons) but wondering if there is any safe, private, dignified space where women can go to discuss the things they might need to when their male partner begins 'exploring' his gender identity?

And me.
As for this space, I'm not thinking about it in terms of what is nice or appropriate, but what is reasonable. I've just become very aware of how lonely it must be for the trans widows, when the whole world seems to be celebrating a crisis in your marriage as some kind of a rebirth, and the TWAW mantra tells you that you have actually married a woman and become a lesbian without realising it . What a headfuck. In this context, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that one of the increasingly rare spaces where you can still express gender-critical views could be preserved just for women.

Someone I met at LAWS in Cornwall this year (not the woman that spoke in the audience and at the next meeting) has been trying to set something up, this is what she has produced. She has posted about it in the transwidows thread.

transwidows.com/contact/

wondering if there is any safe, private, dignified space where women can go to discuss the things they might need to when their male partner begins 'exploring' his gender identity?

I'm not aware that there is. When I was first going through this, there was a "Women of the Beaumont Society" Yahoo group (back when Yahoo groups were a thing). It wasn't helpful to me as the few women that used it seemed to be putting up with miserable abusive relationships with AGP's.

I think this group is now defunct. I'd be very sceptical of any group that wasn't independent anyway.

I might be interested in setting something up, as long as it doesn't facilitate men. The Trans Widows thread is called "Escape Committee" for a reason.

As for this space, I'm not thinking about it in terms of what is nice or appropriate, but what is reasonable. I've just become very aware of how lonely it must be for the trans widows, when the whole world seems to be celebrating a crisis in your marriage as some kind of a rebirth, and the TWAW mantra tells you that you have actually married a woman and become a lesbian without realising it confused. What a headfuck. In this context, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that one of the increasingly rare spaces where you can still express gender-critical views could be preserved just for women.

I believe there may be more that other women can do (in simple ways) which promote the possibility of more space here.

Starting with respecting, considering and centring their perspective.

The transwidows thread is really important but I wonder how safe it feels for women who post there to join other threads.
Tinsel's contributions on this thread are really important.

What R0 said. Particularly this:

Tinsel's contributions on this thread are really important.

Thank you, Tinsel.

Someone I met at LAWS in Cornwall this year (not the woman that spoke in the audience and at the next meeting)

Really powerful and important speech from LAWS Plymouth:
(at 2:02)
Abigail Rowland 'a poet, writer and former teacher also a sexual abuse survivor and was what we might call a transwidow'

Also from LAWS website, important testimony of a woman raped:
Jane's Story
"Jane contacted Let a Woman Speak and asked if we would publish her story. When Jane opened up and told us what she had experienced, it touched all of us. No woman should have to go through what Jane went through. It's a honour that we are able to allow Jane to tell her story on our website"

(extract)
Why did he do this to me? Why would a man who wants to be a woman want to violate another woman? Was he jealous of my femininity? Did he feel that he needed to rape me to assert his male or female power? Why would he want to hurt me like this? I was the first person to fully accept all of who he was and who he wanted to become! Did one part of him love me and another part of him loathe females? Why me? Has he done this to other women? How will I ever fill in the gaps he has left me with through him making me unconscious for all that time? Is he sorry? Does he have feelings like me, if, as he says, he feels a woman? Does he feel suicidal like I did once my shock had worn off? Will I ever know any answers to my questions that cripple me daily with anxiety? (continues)

www.letawomanspeak.org/jane

Social media is never going to be a safe space to discuss really personal issues, is it? Even choosing opaque " user names" will never solve that.

People who have no reason to be on any particular social media will be there, even if they wish to do harm. Even people who have a perfect right to be there, and contributing, and wish, and do, no harm will be there. However much people try to discourage them by subtle or less than subtle means.

Presumably the only people who one can freely discus the most personal matters will be, as they have always been, individuals with whom one has developed a personal, face to face , connection? In private? .

apologies, Abigail Rowland speaks at 1:18 in above.

Extremely so, yes. I know that parents of trans identifying children often post on wider threads here and their perspectives are respected by and large. It would be very nice if transwidows could feel that their very specific and relevant perspective was acknowledged as important on other threads. It is such an inexplicably marginalized viewpoint, and while I think the transwidows thread is very important, I don't want this perspective hived off because it is a hugely important feminist issue.

Ereshkigal, thanks from me too for the link to watch from abroad. Just watching now.

That last post of mine was directed to R0wan and Lang.

Presumably the only people who one can freely discus the most personal matters will be, as they have always been, individuals with whom one has developed a personal, face to face , connection? In private?

Absolutely not true. As I mentioned in an analogous situation. Women diagnosed with gyny cancer do discuss some of the most profoundly deeply personal matters on internet fora.

They rarely meet face to face, though when this happens as a result of them developing relationships online with 'opaque' user names its pretty amazing and profound

These are open so of course there may be an occasional few people viewing, the odd innapropriate poster, troll or spammer.

They have to be so other women with similar experiences can find them and those who do not feel able to post, can lurk and read perhaps until they feel able to join in.

Its very clear though and what is meant by 'safe, respectful and private' & this is understood and protected with all of the nuance neccesary.

apologies, I missed a point above that should have read:
These are open so of course there may be an occasional few people viewing for unkind or salacious reasons, the odd innapropriate poster, troll or spammer.

And R0wan, obviously women should certainly feel safe posting about their specific issues on a section of a website focused on amplifying women's voices and concerns. They shouldn't need to be shooed off to talk about it in private. It should be understood that they should be centred and treated with respect, especially here.