Watch live Government debate on self ID

[Goldenbuzzer]

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/55146a39-db05-4cb8-b256-41ddbc47f2bc

Hope this works. We should all be able to watch the Westminster hall self ID debate today at 9.30 am live.

Not sure if you can go back and watch it later...

Ok I wonder if I am misquoting her - she said souls not female souls, and I think she meant personality. It was me that said female souls.

I still think it was a spectacularly dumb thing to say but she didn't say she could see a female soul and I don't want her misquoted.

Possibly this was the issue with Karen White, someone less talented than Layla didn't check Karen's soul status properly.

As opposed to looking at the evidence and making the leap that White obviously focuses upon opportunities with women to offend; noticing what White was awaiting trial for; and making the connection that White would almost certainly do the same crime again given the opportunity.

Maybe what the prison services need are some crystal dowsers?

(Layla's seems like a good sort - what is happening to our decent, bright women?)

The focus realy should be on the TRA lobbyists and individuals. They have exerted a great deal of power on politicians and others with influence, both sexes!

What is being seen is the effectiveness of the propaganda.

Thanks for the email address, pretty cheesed off with all of this now and have sent a message of support to David Davies. Will be contacting my MP too.

No one cares.

That's the bottom line.

And because no one cares I dread to think what will happen.

When people stop caring and start spouting ideology of souls you are in trouble.

It closes minds and allows for the justification and turning a blind eye to anything.

My local ld councillor is extremely concerned about rising xenophobia and totalitarianism because of his family background. He's frightening about Orwellian use of language in politics. Mention this to him and he's not interested. Thinks its a fringe issue.

I'm worried.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/this-mp-has-summed-up-everything-wrong-with-the-transgender-debate/

I love that blog post!

But what about those women who do not possess Ms Moran’s remarkable gift, and who might just be a little concerned about the anatomy of the people they share changing rooms and bathrooms with? Women who might not subscribe to the fact-free, anti-evidence superstitious gibberish contained in talk of seeing souls?

It's difficult to believe.

Her answer to whether she is happy to dismantle sex segregation is

She sees souls.

No red we fight on
We have no choice.
We have to be strong and fuck off the souls seekers
She is a Lib Dem Ffs
They ain’t got a clue on anything including the souls lost or not
So Layla fuck off with your lack of brain despite education and take your souls with you

So Layla Moran doesn't mind if a trans woman is in the changing rooms with her.

Well, that's nice for Layla. Unfortunately other women do care, and Layla is not entitled to give consent to mixed sex spaces on their behalf.

But, but the only reason she doesn't mind males in her space is because of her amazing ability to see souls.

So what happens if she detects the blackened and twisted soul of a maniacal predator? What next?

Sorry, I can't get this ear worm out of my head...

She said I don't mind, you don't mind
'Cause I don't shine if you don't shine

The Killers - Read My Mind

The women have mostly come across as brainwashed. Utterly disgraceful!

I am in LM constituency. A group of us are going to write a letter to her pointing out why her comments were so offensive. I will copy it to the local LibDem party too. If anyone also in OXWAB would like to sign it, please PM me.

I think the point about the problems having already occurred under the current law is a good one.

Stopping self id won't help with this. More robust enforcement of the existing Equality Act provisions would. I'd like to see the government get the message out that the sex segregation exceptions are there for a reason and ought to be used where appropriate. Perhaps guidance with reference to specific organisations and situations.

If I felt that those exceptions would be used appropriately I wouldn't be worried by self id.

LM seems to have been briefed exclusively by Helen Belcher. I wouldn't claim to know anything about Belcher's soul, but Belcher's motivation was very clear on Newsnight a couple of weeks ago.

Interviewer: So, how about a third space, Helen. Would you be happy to use that?

Belcher: No. I am a woman. I should use the women's changing rooms and toilets.

(Not direct quotes, but that's was the gist of it)

Helen wants validation, and women should give in. LM needs to start listening to women.

How do you enforce the existing Equality Act if the law is changed to allow to people to do the impossible - change sex? The whole equality act becomes useless.

Stopping self id won't help with this. More robust enforcement of the existing Equality Act provisions would

But why aren't the existing EA provisions being used? Is it because service providers have been lobbied by pro self ID groups in order to undermine the protections that women have?

Also self ID will massively affect our protections under EA10. If you allow anyone to legally be a woman then you allow anyone into the women's spaces created by the exemptions in the equality act. I don't know who said it but the point made about keeping the existing locks but making massive changes to our policy on handing out keys pretty much covers how single sex spaces will be obliterated if self ID goes through.

Stopping self id won't help with this.

But self-ID will make the problem worse.

The EA is linked with the GRA. There is stuff in there about the gender someone presents as being taken into account in the case of someone who doesn't have ID in their chosen gender. In the case of someone who has ID in their chosen gender, their appearance is no longer of any importance, since their legal sex is what is on their documents, and that is how they have to be treated.

An obvious male who has no ID which says he is female can be treated as a man, no matter how much he declares himself to be female. An obvious male with ID which says he is female has to be treated as female.

The way the GRA and the EA interact is what is important here. They don't stand alone with no relationship to each other. A GRA which says that any man can become legally female simply by signing a document renders all the sex-based protections in the EA meaningless.

If anyone is free to choose their own legal sex, what does 'sex' actually mean?

Equality Act if the law is changed to allow to people to do the impossible - change sex? The whole equality act becomes useless.

Just to say that I know we're talking about specific parts but there are other protected characteristics that cover disability, race etc.

Just found the youtube link for the newsnight programme with Helen Belcher that I mentioned earlier.

This is who Layla Moran has got (seemingly all) her information from.

I want to place on the record my thanks to my Liberal Democrat colleague and friend, Helen Belcher, whom I have worked with closely on this matter.

Since Layla is requiring people to respect her particular religious faith re souls, I'd be interested to hear how she plans to respect other religious faiths of other women who cannot share spaces with people born male however they identify? Has that occurred to her at all? What does she feel these women should do? Is she up for excluding women from public places if they don't share her faith?

More importantly, is she aware that she is on a public payroll, in a public servant role, defending the arguments of people who say those women certainly should be excluded for adhering to a religion that has boundaries around women's privacy?

Layla Moran MP was nominated for Pink News Politician of the Year recently.
She didn't win, maybe next year

So the female politicians we have are those who have done well in a man’s world.

Which is why we need women's rights. For female people. So you don't have to do those things to succeed.