Watch live Government debate on self ID

[Goldenbuzzer]

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/55146a39-db05-4cb8-b256-41ddbc47f2bc

Hope this works. We should all be able to watch the Westminster hall self ID debate today at 9.30 am live.

Not sure if you can go back and watch it later...

Dawn Butler and other cheerleader MPs seem to be very selective about which transgender people they will listen to.

Dawn Butler's speech and assurances at Jane Fae's recent trans conference, 'We're Still Here':
(extract)
"Minority groups must stand together in the fight for one another's rights, the shadow secretary of state for women has said.

Dawn Butler used her keynote speech at the UK's first transgender conference, titled #StillHere, to speak of the importance of solidarity in the effort to advance transgender rights.

“I know that after this I’m going to get quite a lot of abuse,” the Labour MP said on Saturday, “but it’s nothing compared to what you get on a daily basis.”

This is what I learnt from talking to an anti-trans campaigner
She said: “You have to know that there is a flood of voices behind you… that’s here to stand up and support and stick up for your rights. Because without your rights I can’t have my rights and I quite like my rights and I’m still struggling to get my full rights."

“We have to fight for each other,” she added.

The conference aimed to provide a space where transgender people and allies could discuss prominent issues and network with one another.

Journalist and campaigner Jane Fae, who had the initial idea for the event, said she also hoped to “provide a boost to community spirits … after a year of unprecedented hostility towards the trans community.” (continues)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dawn-butler-transgender-uk-labour-intersectionality-rights-a8534761.html

thread with first-hand report from the day:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

I don’t know why people are so surprised that it’s women who are parroting the TRA cause.

Isn’t it often what happens in cases of abuse? A woman finally plucks up the courage to confide and to seek help, only to find that her friends and acquantances side with her partner because he’s such a nice chap and has been telling everyone for years what a mad-bitch shrew she is?
The women who believe the “my wife doesn’t understand me” and “my ex is a harridan” bullshit are the same type as those who stood up in the Commons today.

Isn’t it often what happens in cases of abuse? A woman finally plucks up the courage to confide and to seek help, only to find that her friends and acquantances side with her partner because he’s such a nice chap and has been telling everyone for years what a mad-bitch shrew she is?
The women who believe the “my wife doesn’t understand me” and “my ex is a harridan” bullshit are the same type as those who stood up in the Commons today.

Yes, handmaids.

MP's have no right to be that badly informed or partisan.
They are being paid to do this.

They learned to do well in patriarchy, they don't want anything to change, they like things as they are. Dawn has been quoted as stating some astonishing things in a trans meeting - about hypnosis - and at a Labour party conference about lies.

The thing is, as we all know, after it's pushed through there won't be a flood of incidents. What will happen is a steady increase in them - and they'll be recorded as crimes by women even in many cases when it's a man simply using the self-id law as a means to enter women's spaces specifically to abuse.

And there will be occasional hand-wringing, but no-one will dare put their finger on the actual cause or reasons.

We'll just all be much more unsafe and have our lives curtailed even more.

Layla Moran (LibDem) MP has been notably supportive of Sarah Brown (LibDem LGBT+ and Stonewall Trans Advisory group)

My feelings are that Dawn has been sold a spot in the farm house by the establishment - Dawn is yet to realise Dawn is really a useful sheep to the establishment.

Two legs...

Karen white committed most of the sex offences across the entire women's esatate for the year in 4 days (or something similar)

Telegraph article this week re Paris Green (male) & transgender surgery whilst in prison:
(extract)
"Green, 27, was found guilty of murder and jailed for life in 2013 after she tortured, sexually assaulted and beat a man to death with two accomplices.

Since being incarcerated, Green from Glenrothes, Fife, has been removed from a women’s prison for sexually assaulting other inmates."

The charity Women in Prison (WIP) would not comment on this specific case, however it said: “WIP respects the right of any individual to transition. Drawing on our experience in providing support, we recognise the significant difficulties that this often involves.

“We support the right of transgender people to access services that meet their needs.”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/trans-murderer-serving-life-will-receive-80k-gender-reassignment/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3427785-Paris-Green

The irony that a debate on rape myths and juries following the debate is not lost on me. What is needed is empirical evidence to shore up the important questions asked. Professor Thomas will do this. The review is current. Gender stereotypes exist in this society and are damaging to women and girls.

Place that against the Self ID debate which was argued against on flimsy feelings and flimsy evidence. Emotive arguments charged on such evidence that it is transgender week awareness does little to improve the well being of trans people. Repeating mantras based on an ideological belief does little to improve the well being of trans people. My conclusion is that these women MPs who debated against the motion care little for trans people.

I think I've now completely lost faith in our parliamentary system, social services & healthcare providers, police, local government, education etc to even recognise the rights of children and women.
Aside from rare individuals speaking out, it's a tidal wave this ideology.

Wonder what David Davies thinks of his parliamentary colleagues and their inability/refusal to engage with even the meekest of voices in opposition to self-id. They just used it as a platform to tout their progressive credentials.
What a fucking shameful bunch of unthinking, self-promoting tossers.

Exactly Wringingout

lies, factually incorrect legal historical documents and compelled speech are to be forced upon the nation

I was a midwife for twenty years. Notifying the registrars office of the birth, including the sex of the baby is a part of that job. I certainly never tossed a coin and randomly "assigned" a sex. That those legal records, my birth notifications, and those of other professionals, should be changed - it may sound silly but I take that very personally. I am never going to accept that humans (or any other mammal) can change sex.

And I don't see what is wrong with people accepting they would prefer to present and live as a member of the opposite sex (whatever that means) whilst understanding the truth that they cannot actually change sex.

Welcome to the new dark ages.

My conclusion is that these women MPs who debated against the motion care little for trans people.

They clearly don't care about the fully transitioned transsexuals who are against self-ID.

And I don't see what is wrong with people accepting they would prefer to present and live as a member of the opposite sex (whatever that means) whilst understanding the truth that they cannot actually change sex.

Why are we called bigots for suggesting that this might be a truly progressive way forward?

Or the ones that want to keep their mental health support.

I agree OldCrone

Why is Dawn Butler cosying up to a person whose main area of interest is the legalisation of extreme porn, and has written stuff that makes it clear why they want it legalised (free speech hahahahaha)

James Kirkup
@jameskirkup
It is 2018. There is a Member of Parliament who says she can see into people's souls.
"I see someone in their soul and as a person. I do not really care whether they have a male body." - Layla Moran MP (in a debate about violence against women.)
Hansard: hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-11-21/debates/BE06C5D4-E549-4F94-87B1-9B77F32EA155/Self-IdentificationOfGender

God, just when I though Layla Moran couldn't be any more idiotic! How embarrassing. I've seen her live and she is just not very bright I'm sorry to say. She and Jo Swinson are big supporters of the GRA.

What a shitshow! Apart from Victoria Atkins all the women there were an utter embarrassment and just handing ammunition to people who don’t want women in politics. Kudos to DB who even in a room full of lobotomised wombats manages to come across as exceptionally thick.

Oh and put me down for Brandon Lewis in sweepstake on ‘unlikely woke bloke’

Everybody now write to their MP and complain about their non attendance.

if Layla’s your MP may I suggest Zoopla

Part one

Dear Layla Moran,

I was amazed to hear today that you can see the souls of people. As a philosophy student this is ground-breaking information. I wonder if you could take some of your precious time away from gazing at the souls of men and answer some questions for the benefit of all human understanding?

[edited by MNHQ by request]

Dear Layla Moran

Reporting above.

Hansard is pretty quick isn't it. I'm impressed with that.

That's the most positive thing I have to say.

Hahahahaha now there’s a Freudian slip