I know the thread has moved on but Moonsick, perhaps your DD and her friends might like to know that there are 37 yo skirt wearing SAHMs who play DnD (3.5 ed), Pathfinder, and MtG (and are quite pleased with some of their decks). And I was most definitely female last time I checked. Oh, and if they like PC games they should all play Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment which are both on GOG.com. Sorry, nerd derailment /end

Pfft. Nevermind all this convoluted outlandish conspiracy nonsense. I think it's time we all owned up to being responsible for chemtrails and government lasers starting wildfires, tbh. Frankly this human disguise is really started to itch over the top of my feminist lizard skin...

Floral

india Willoughby has flip-flopped from being anti gender self-id to advocating it in the Pink News article linked previously,

Being pro self ID doesn't mean she can't see the damage Stonewall has done for public relations, they are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people are growing more and more disillusioned at stonewalls behaviour, including those that support the right to self ID.
Makes you wonder just who exactly they are claiming to represent doesn't it?

But Stonewall are hugely powerful, particularly with the government.

If India is on the outs with Stonewall, they will exclude India from the money to be made from the transgender movement.

There is no way that India will get a Police Inclusion Advisor post or anything of that ilk; you need to toe the Stonewall line to get those kinds of jobs.

Stonewall have it all sewn up. And dissent is not tolerated.

I think India has always done her own thing tbh.

And yet, she has openly expressed dissatisfaction with how they have done things.
Maybe stonewall will start to realise they need a new approach?

I don't understand sorry. 0.6% of 0.6% is 0.36% it's just over half of 0.6%

Hang on no you're right and I'm wrong

urgh long tieing day.
:o

And yet, she has openly expressed dissatisfaction with how they have done things.
Maybe stonewall will start to realise they need a new approach?

The petition to Stonewell has been running for some time. There are transsexuals on the original letter such as Rose Of Dawn who have a far more coherant position and get very little/no opportunity to speak publically as well as many other lesbians, gay men and bisexuals.
(the comments on the petition are really worth reading)

No doubt though if IW is now joining the challenge she'll be on ITV soon sharing her opinion.

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

Have just read this in a closed autism group discussing the article with one person saying they would have been classed as trans if a child now- "i was a tomboy, I wasn't stereotypically girly. I didn't like my body. I didn't identify with girls, or the women around me. I hated my periods and thought boys were better as they didn't get them." Response is that's not trans 😖 isn't it? Tbf there were a mixed response with quite a few parent's stating they were very concerned for their asd children.

Don't get me wrong R0wantrees, India clearly has a completely different opinon to the one we share overall, but i do think that she gets on a basic level that the pushback is happening through fear rather than hatered and it's being fuled by stonewall refusing civil debate and not answering the genuing questions.
It's this basic level of understanding that it's not a black and white issue people like Lily Madigan don't have.

India Willoughby's perspective, concern and motivation is for India Willoughby. It also shifts and will shift again.

February 2018 interview described by Dr Nic Williams:

"Good Morning Britain again – being introduced by Piers Morgan. India will also be giving her views on the Women’s Aid story. This time up again an expert in the field; Karen Ingala Smith is the head of an amazing organisation called nia that provides services for women and children who have experienced male violence. (continues)

"That social conditioning affects us all as women – we see it in Karen, the expert in the room no less, as she waits for her turn while the males speak. I felt it inside me as I sat in the studio not wanting to interrupt or come over too aggressively. We see the male privilege that both Piers and India have grown up with pushing them on – allowing them to speak with such confidence on areas they know very little about. If we closed our eyes and just listened – there would be no doubt who was born male and who was born female around that table.

And then India pounces in for the killer blow, turning to Karen who had just dared to interrupt and give her views. India said “you accept that transgender women aren’t men, yeah?” “If I got beaten in a relationship would I be welcome?” Karen replies that India should have access to a specialist refuge for transwomen to an indignant India who declares “A specialist refuge – but they don’t exist”.

Let’s just unpack that for a minute. First, it is already the policy of some shelters, such as Women’s Aid, to allow male-born transwomen refuge on a case-by-case basis. India would not have no where to go. Secondly, how does India think specialised refuge’s for women came into existence? Women campaigned and fought for their existence that’s how. Something that the transgender community can and should be doing for themselves rather than expecting and demanding access to under-funded and over-stretched services that are not designed for their particular needs.

Without pausing to let Karen speak India then crossed a line – a line that has lost h all respect from me and I hope all the women watching – India dared to tell Karen that her website contains a list of crimes committed by men and that this was is a great demonisation.

“I feel really sorry for guys this year – I think they’ve had it really tough”.

(continues)
fairplayforwomen.com/thank-india-w-showing-us-women-perceive-transwomen-still-male/

India Willoughby's perspective, concern and motivation is for India Willoughby. It also shifts and will shift again.

I concur.

If 0.6% of people are trans and 0.6% of people are autistic then wouldn’t it be 0.6% of trans people are autistic if the two things have have no correlation? So 0.036% (0.6% of 0.6%) of trans people would be expected to be autistic (or vice versa) if it followed the general pattern of the population? Statistics is not my strong point by the way!

I remember watching that on TV Lang. India nailed their colours well and truly to the mast there...the only concern was for the evil MEN who murder WOMEN!

Such a woman.

I love Karen Ingala Smith. She is so incredibly highly thought of among all the support staff in Women's Aid.

Statistics is my strong point but I got it wrong this is worse than the 7x6 fiasco

Bob Withers (@BobWithers52) Tweeted:
I’m amazed at the level of response to this article. Thanks everyone! I’ve been asked to speak on itv’s good morning Britain and this morning at 6.40 & 10.30 respectively tomorrow! 19.11.18 twitter.com/BobWithers52/status/1064275070737149953?s=17

My eldest (now 16) had a girl who now identifies as trans in his year.

I read the article to him & he said it totally describes the girl he knows - the uniform described (blonde quiff, round glasses, donkey jacket etc) he said described her to a tee. Also the power she has over teachers & other pupils & the 'educating' others about how they too might actually be trans.

He said she used to be a really nice girl - initially came out as gay & then 'became a boy' and turned into a nightmare.

If 0.6% of people are trans and 0.6% of people are autistic then wouldn’t it be 0.6% of trans people are autistic if the two things have have no correlation? So 0.036% (0.6% of 0.6%) of trans people would be expected to be autistic (or vice versa) if it followed the general pattern of the population? Statistics is not my strong point by the way!

That’s how I calculated it.

Yet 25% of those referred to Tavistock are somewhere on the spectrum according to their own stats.

So either there’s a staggeringly high co-morbidity or gender non-conforming autistic kids are falsely being diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

About 10% of the UK population is black (that’s a rough estimate as I just plucked it out of nowhere).

Now imagine that 25% of those being referred to Tavistock were black.

People would be demanding to know what the hell is going on here that black kids are being disproportionately referred for gender reassignment.

Yet a minority that is roughly 1/20th the size of the black population makes up 25% of referrals.

I've known Autistic males be approved for transition when they have explicitly stated they want to be female because they like soft materials and don't like the tight feeling of trousers (sensory integration). And that becoming female will make them more empathic and better at social communication because they perceive women as better at those things.

Seeming to think that becoming female will stop them being Autistic and they will become a stereotype of a socially confident, caring and understanding woman.

It is a fucking scandal that they can attend a GI clinic and be given a diagnosis of GD in an hour or so.

Why are the public so keen to ignore this?

No doubt though if IW is now joining the challenge she'll be on ITV soon sharing her opinion.

I wasn't expecting this quite so soon but it seems India Willoughby has been on Good Morning Britain this morning with Bob Withers discussing ROGD etc.
Robert Withers is a psychotherapist who wrote the article in Daily Mail.
I haven't seen it yet.

From his tweet linked above he will also be on This Morning at 10.30.

Oh god, am I really going to have to endure another episode of this morning? I’m really not sure I can do that to myself.