Tomorrows Mail on Sunday Front Page

[RedToothBrush]

School with 17 children changing gender

[Boatmouse]

.

[RedToothBrush]

Now imagine that 25% of those being referred to Tavistock were black.

People would be demanding to know what the hell is going on here that black kids are being disproportionately referred for gender reassignment.

Got to be honest, would they?
Look at the high prevelance of mental illness in prison populations.

You are assuming that enough people care to talk about it.

I fear this is an incorrect assumption.

[whatsthecomingoverthehill]

Aspie, yes you are correct, it was this that I was disagreeing with:
So 0.036% (0.6% of 0.6%) of trans people would be expected to be autistic (or vice versa) if it followed the general pattern of the population?

[TimeLady]

Supportative article from Conservative Woman

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/transgender-surgery-lobotomy-for-our-times/

You'd think Mordaunt et al would be listening to that demographic.

[AspieAndProud]

If you read the entire thread you’ll see I said that if dysphoria and autism are independent there would be a 0.0036% incidence in the population.

That Tavistock report a 25% comorbidity in their ‘clients’ indicates that autistics are staggeringly over-represented.

If that figure is correct then gender dysphoria cannot be considered independent of autism and their autism ought to be prioritised over gender dysphoria.

They need help from autism specialists before they are butchered or chemically castrated to validate the lifestyle choices of adults.

[StealthPolarBear]

Yes that's right and shows the importance of reading the question. You'd expect 0.6% of autistic people to be trans if there was no difference (by definition)

[whatsthecomingoverthehill]

(That should be 0.0036% having both.)

[whatsthecomingoverthehill]

If 0.6% of people are trans and 0.6% of people are autistic then wouldn’t it be 0.6% of trans people are autistic if the two things have have no correlation? So 0.036% (0.6% of 0.6%) of trans people would be expected to be autistic (or vice versa) if it followed the general pattern of the population? Statistics is not my strong point by the way!

Sorry, that's wrong. If there is no correlation between trans and autism then you would expect 0.6% of trans people to be autistic (and 0.6% of autistic people to be trans). 0.036% is, on a whole population level, the proportion who would be expected to be both trans and autistic.

[AngryAttackKittens]

We've long believed their was a strong link between Autism and gender dysphorio particularly female to male, I would expect nothing less than a campaign of hate and misinformation from the Mail on this subject. Autistic children whilst vulnerable are intelligent and creative

That's pretty much an inadvertent admission by Jenny that teen trans trending is a form of roleplaying engaged in by imaginative children.

[R0wantrees]

Plus all the others would likely simply refuse to debate.

As Stonewall, GIRES, Gendered Intelligence, Mermaids etc are having so much influence in health, education, social care, govt policy etc, they need to start providing people who are able to discuss these things seriously and respectfully.

Its not a celeb thing.
The articles being discussed are whistleblowing safeguarding concerns.

[RedToothBrush]

Cos it's easier to speed dial India than to persuade a no debater to come on a programme

[Ereshkigal]

Plus all the others would likely simply refuse to debate.

[Ereshkigal]

To be fair, there aren't really any reasonable TRAs, are there?

[hackmum]

Why on earth do they always invite India Willoughby on to these programmes? Anyone know who Bob is up against at 10.30?

[RepealtheGRA]

Oh god, am I really going to have to endure another episode of this morning? I’m really not sure I can do that to myself.

[R0wantrees]

No doubt though if IW is now joining the challenge she'll be on ITV soon sharing her opinion.

I wasn't expecting this quite so soon but it seems India Willoughby has been on Good Morning Britain this morning with Bob Withers discussing ROGD etc.
Robert Withers is a psychotherapist who wrote the article in Daily Mail.
I haven't seen it yet.

From his tweet linked above he will also be on This Morning at 10.30.

[LetsPretendToBeWoke]

I've known Autistic males be approved for transition when they have explicitly stated they want to be female because they like soft materials and don't like the tight feeling of trousers (sensory integration). And that becoming female will make them more empathic and better at social communication because they perceive women as better at those things.

Seeming to think that becoming female will stop them being Autistic and they will become a stereotype of a socially confident, caring and understanding woman.

It is a fucking scandal that they can attend a GI clinic and be given a diagnosis of GD in an hour or so.

Why are the public so keen to ignore this?

[AspieAndProud]

About 10% of the UK population is black (that’s a rough estimate as I just plucked it out of nowhere).

Now imagine that 25% of those being referred to Tavistock were black.

People would be demanding to know what the hell is going on here that black kids are being disproportionately referred for gender reassignment.

Yet a minority that is roughly 1/20th the size of the black population makes up 25% of referrals.

[AspieAndProud]

If 0.6% of people are trans and 0.6% of people are autistic then wouldn’t it be 0.6% of trans people are autistic if the two things have have no correlation? So 0.036% (0.6% of 0.6%) of trans people would be expected to be autistic (or vice versa) if it followed the general pattern of the population? Statistics is not my strong point by the way!

That’s how I calculated it.

Yet 25% of those referred to Tavistock are somewhere on the spectrum according to their own stats.

So either there’s a staggeringly high co-morbidity or gender non-conforming autistic kids are falsely being diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

[DaisyTwirl]

My eldest (now 16) had a girl who now identifies as trans in his year.

I read the article to him & he said it totally describes the girl he knows - the uniform described (blonde quiff, round glasses, donkey jacket etc) he said described her to a tee. Also the power she has over teachers & other pupils & the 'educating' others about how they too might actually be trans.

He said she used to be a really nice girl - initially came out as gay & then 'became a boy' and turned into a nightmare.

[HandsOffMyRights]

Bob Withers (@BobWithers52) Tweeted:
I’m amazed at the level of response to this article. Thanks everyone! I’ve been asked to speak on itv’s good morning Britain and this morning at 6.40 & 10.30 respectively tomorrow! 19.11.18 twitter.com/BobWithers52/status/1064275070737149953?s=17

[StealthPolarBear]

Statistics is my strong point but I got it wrong this is worse than the 7x6 fiasco

[TheCountryGirl]

I remember watching that on TV Lang. India nailed their colours well and truly to the mast there...the only concern was for the evil MEN who murder WOMEN!

Such a woman.

I love Karen Ingala Smith. She is so incredibly highly thought of among all the support staff in Women's Aid.

[GoldenWonderwall]

If 0.6% of people are trans and 0.6% of people are autistic then wouldn’t it be 0.6% of trans people are autistic if the two things have have no correlation? So 0.036% (0.6% of 0.6%) of trans people would be expected to be autistic (or vice versa) if it followed the general pattern of the population? Statistics is not my strong point by the way!

[LangCleg]

India Willoughby's perspective, concern and motivation is for India Willoughby. It also shifts and will shift again.

I concur.