Tomorrows Mail on Sunday Front Page

[RedToothBrush]

School with 17 children changing gender

Only the courts can remove this, not schools.

A note to the Scots on the thread - if names person legislation goes through, this will no longer be true

Named sorry - autocorrect

If I was part of a movement and the DM was backing my p.o.v. I'd be worried. Very worried.

What would you be worried about exactly, spanna?

Sunday Times article today: 'Thank God they didn’t make this tomboy trans
The psychotherapist Stella O’Malley was sure she had been born the wrong sex — until she hit 16. She argues we must give children time to decide'
concludes:
"One group of voices is notably absent in the documentary. The production team spent three months approaching transgender lobby groups and charities, but all refused point blank to speak to O’Malley.

“It astonished me,” she says. “I thought we were going to explore this [issue] in its entirety, meet people who have transitioned at a very young age, meet all sorts of people. I thought it would be a film that would help parents and teenagers. It would add to the body of knowledge already out there. I didn’t expect to be silenced.”

O’Malley, who works from a private practice in Dublin and has written two books about children and mental health, realised it was her own experience that was putting the trans lobby on edge: “I think they thought I was confused, that I didn’t have the experience I had.”

She insists that she approached the subject of medical intervention with an open mind.

In the documentary she meets James Caspian, a psychotherapist whose research into people who have “detransitioned” after gender-reassignment surgery was shut down by Bath Spa University. It was concerned about the backlash that it might get on social media.

This absence of debate is alarming, considering the growing number of people affected. In the past nine years the number of children referred to NHS gender services has increased 25-fold. Many will go down a path of puberty-blockers, hormone treatment and surgery.

O’Malley met the parents of a 13-year-old who had been born a girl and was about to start taking hormone-blockers. These will stop breasts developing and periods starting. The child can then make up their own mind about their gender when they are 16.

“This line is sometimes given: that puberty-blockers are a pause button. Yet every study shows that 90%-100% of children, once they start puberty blockers, will go on with it,” O’Malley says.

Of the trans people O’Malley spoke to, none said they regretted their decision to go down the medical route — even Cale, a young woman who ended up detransitioning after a double mastectomy.

The point that O’Malley wants to make is not that medicine is wrong, but that we need to be sure we aren’t causing unnecessary damage: “I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to say this approach is wrong or that approach is wrong. But I wonder aloud: are we exploring it all?

Trans Kids: It’s Time to Talk will be on Channel 4 at 10pm on Wednesday”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thank-god-they-didnt-make-this-tomboy-trans-thzt8xr3z?shareToken=ef90dd949e3021e89e59da268525e9d0

Spannablue yes life and the press is that black and white and simplistic.

‘Discussed’ on BBC news just now. A comment was ‘maybe all the autistic children are transgenger’ . That explains it so.

Just to add, spanna, I'd prefer it if i

Thank goodness it is finally hitting the headlines. That psychotherapists article covers the issues so well

Because a lot of family are on the spectrum I am horrified by the vulnerability of autistic teens. Often they find it so hard to fit in. And are so gender non conforming. So what is more attractive to an autistic teen than a sudden way to be popular, part of a group and even looked up to and celebrated by other teens? It is scarily seductive.

The BBC News has just been forced to cover this on its TV paper review.

It was the last paper reviewed, and brief. The male commentator was rubbish. Too scared/befuddled to comment. Katie Balls from The Spectator got it.

A note to the Scots on the thread - if names person legislation goes through, this will no longer be true

Yes. Very worrying.

Accidentally hit post just now. I'll try again.

I'd prefer it to have been the Guardian or the Times printing this story. But if it's the Mail it's better than nothing.

Spanna...

"This is behind all their ........ pro Tory wind-up merchant 'journalism'.

I assume you are a Labour party supporter then...

As a floating voter I will vote for the party who best aligns with me on the issues I care about.

I also feel comfortable reading a variety of papers online, including articles I disagree with. I find it helps me test and develop my own opinions. I don't know if you find the same. And good articles can be found across the British press. For example the Guardian's football coverage is often very good.

The idea that the Mail are inherently evil

they have led campaigning on reducing use of plastics
they were at the forefront of investigating Stephen Lawrence's murder and the incompetent investigation of it

they're not a hate filled rag. they just have a different view to you on some things.

grow up

If I was part of a movement and the DM was backing my p.o.v. I'd be worried. Very worried.

The Mail on Sunday are covering a specific issue, informed by a teacher who has whistleblown.

This week (15/11/18), the Daily Mail ran this story informed by Mermaids Charity:
'If I have to go through puberty, I don't think I'll make it': Emotional short film shows the struggles transgender teens face - including being bullied and not knowing which toilet to use at school
Short film 'Listen', made by trans director Jake Graf, includes young trans actors
The five-minute film highlights the trauma many young trans people experience

Includes a trans boy who won't drink because he doesn't want to use the toilet
And a trans girl who fears her teen years because of the onset of male puberty"
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6392767/Short-film-highlights-agony-transgender-children.html

In May 2018 The Guardian article included a range of perspectives:
'Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help'
(extract)
"[Stephanie Davies-Arai Founder Transgender Trend] says her broader concern is that by affirming students’ gender identity, schools may be nudging them down a route that can lead to cross-sex hormones and life-changing surgery without enough time to reflect. Teachers, she says, “are essentially being forced to collude in an experimental approach towards children with gender dysphoria”. She adds: “You can support children and accept them, without affirming their belief that their body is ‘wrong’.”

Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse.

When they come out, she says, they have brought in information sourced from Tumblr blogs and YouTube videos. Although her team does its best to “support every child in a loving, kind and compassionate way”, she feels that staff are too frightened to challenge what she sees as harmful practices: “We have chest binders worn in school, which is horrible. If a child was cutting, they would be straight in with a counsellor. Yet damaging developing breast tissue goes unquestioned. It’s a gross failure in terms of child protection.”

[Susie Green CEO Mermaids Charity] disagrees, and argues for a biological underpinning to transgender identity: “If a child or young person consistently, insistently and persistently states their feelings, to ignore, punish or repress their gender identity would effectively be reparative therapy.” (continues)

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

I just listened to the discussion about the Sunday newspapers on Radio 4. Fraser Nelson, the editor of the Spectator, was on it - I was really disappointed he didn't choose this story. You have to wonder how long the BBC are going to keep on ignoring this issue.

Incidentally, the DM and the MoS have some top-notch reporting going on. If you look back to when the Savile story broke, or Kids Company, the depth and breadth of their reporting was far superior to that in the Guardian or the other broadsheets. They're also very good on reporting medical negligence cases and poor care in the NHS. When you get past the rabidly right-wing element and the dubious sidebar of shame stuff, you can find a lot of high-quality news stories in the Mail.

Yes, Spanna, we all remember the record of the left wing media with respect to exploitation of children and women. Julie Bindel excoriated for pitching articles about grooming gangs to them. In the end, only Andrew Norfolk at The Times exposing it.

Pardon me if I read the Mail in this case.

I'm also a floating voter, Needmoresleep. People who join a group/party sometimes outsource their thinking to that group, so find it odd when some of us think for ourselves about each issue and vote accordingly. So if sometimes the Mail prints an article I agree with it's not totally surprising to me.

I agree that reading a variety of opinions does help with understanding all sides of an issue.

Maybe time to step out of your echo chamber spanna and engage with the issues for once.

spannablue Did you let Jake Graf & Hannah Winterbourne (patrons of Mermaids) know your 'serious concerns' & views on Thursday when the Daily Mail ran the uncritical, supportive article about the Mermaids film featuring children involved with the charity?

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3425052-Jake-Grafs-new-film-for-mermaids?pg=2

I'm glad to see this being reported on the front page of the MoS today. My own teens left school a year ago, but what I'd been hearing from them for the last couple of years on this issue concerned me.

I'm a floating voter too. I don't trust party politics or appreciate their one size fits all approach.

Then there's the issue of neoliberalism. Ergo, of course the DM or the Guardian will publish something on each side of a debate- to sell papers. There are individual journalists who have their own positive intent but they work for institutions which have overarching ideologies, just like parties. That's what I was referring to. I just feel cynical when the DM does a 'nice' piece.

I spend enormous swathes of time engaging with the issues in my work and private life. This is just one teeny weeny corner and given the hostile environment it's not a place I feel encourages much engagement. Hence my approach to checking in

There are clusters of trans identified children at my daughter’s single sex superselective grammar. One cluster is focused around one of her close friends, a girl with autism. The group is made up of fiercely intelligent girls, none of whom feel like they fit in with the prevailing trends in the school. They are all socially awkward, have unusual hobbies (DnD/MTG), dont bother with makeup/fashion and unsurprisingly were all bullied at their primary schools. Four of them (out of 6) are in romantic relationships with girls and they are all achingly middle class.

When the original girl came out as transgender and made a social transition (name, presentation) and bound her breasts, gender labels became a major topic of discussion and three more are trialling social transitions. One girl asks the teachers to call her a different name every day. DD brought me her WhatsApp the other day, where there were suggestions that DD could be trans because she is gifted in maths and chemistry, doesnt like makeup, is loud, opinionated, wears comfortable clothes, likes being outdoors and isnt bothered by boys. DD was furious and had already replied to tell her friends that they were being ridiculous, but I couldn’t believe all of this was going on behind the scenes, and I had no idea.

Coming on to post this.

I'm not surprised.

YouTube is a very big thing for children on the autistic spectrum; it's used in schools for educational purposes but they use it then selves to find out about the world and follow their interests.

Anyone who's ever had anything to do with them would know they are driven by ££ and nothing else.

In other earth shattering news, the sky is blue, grass is green...

I spend enormous swathes of time engaging with the issues in my work

Are you a professional trans-lobbist? In which case I can see why you might have a different take.

... case in point- the DM's article on how feminists are responsible for boys' slower progress at school.