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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tomorrows Mail on Sunday Front Page

239 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/11/2018 22:23

School with 17 children changing gender

Tomorrows Mail on Sunday Front Page
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6
R0wantrees · 18/11/2018 12:07

I hope mimmymum will be consistent and also criticise Susie Green who says: “If a child or young person consistently, insistently and persistently states their feelings, to ignore, punish or repress their gender identity would effectively be reparative therapy.”

What qualifications does Susie Green have to make her competent to make such a statement?

James Kirkup Spectator
'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'

(extract)
[Dr Polly Carmichael GIDS] "To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies.

Some people in the gender debate say harsh and critical things about Mermaids. I am not doing so here. My suggestion is that Green, having had her own family experience of transgender issues, has decided to devote herself to charitable work in the hope of offering what she believes as help to others who need it. The same is true of several others who work or volunteer at Mermaids. Read this for a moving account of how devoted some parents are to Mermaids for their help.

Despite its influence, it is worth noting what Mermaids is not. It is not a research body. Its activities are support (for families) and advocacy: based on its contacts with those families, it argues for what it sees are better policies and practices by the NHS and others. It does not carry out or commission clinical or academic research. Its most recent annual report lists among its charitable activities “campaigning and advocacy” and says: “Mermaids has also become more active in lobbying”.

There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (continues)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

trashyTerf · 18/11/2018 12:08

Ricky Gervais has responded to Piers!

Tomorrows Mail on Sunday Front Page
Waterparc · 18/11/2018 12:09

Face it,if you want to out-fact Rowantrees you have to get up pretty early in the morning.....

R0wantrees · 18/11/2018 12:17

Waterparc I'm not a morning person... definitely an owl.

Waterparc · 18/11/2018 12:24

:)

Ereshkigal · 18/11/2018 12:42

I love watching people who don't know what safeguarding is bleat on about safeguarding like parrots. They've observed the fact that a lot of women seem to be using that word, and seem to have concerns related to it, but they have no idea what it is or how it works so they've decided that it means "stuff I don't like".

Oh yes.

SophoclesTheFox · 18/11/2018 12:52

Spanna, do you think that children identifying as trans are being well served by the adults around them being forbidden from discussing what other factors might be at play in their unhappiness (such as with the MofU)?

Do you think they are well served by adults letting them make decisions that are comprehensively beyond their level of maturity, such as decisions on sexual function and fertility in their adult lives?

Do you think they are well served when people urge them to keep secrets from their parents, when those secrets might involve contact with unknown strange adults, medications or harmful practices such as breast binding?

Do you think they are well served by being given powerful drugs that have never undergone clinical testing for the use that they're being put to?

What is it about the Mermaids all-affirmation and no-debate position is it that you think is serving gender confused children well? Because from where I'm standing, it turns on its head everything we know about child and adolescent development, the dangers of blaming mental ill health on a single issue, medical ethics, confidentiality and safeguarding . All without any sort of adequate research that could show us why this is the best and only path?

Help me out here?

HandsOffMyRights · 18/11/2018 13:20

Excellent common sense questions Sophocles

Off to read Ricky Gervais on Twitter!

Queenofthedrivensnow · 18/11/2018 13:24

I'm really interested in the underlying agenda though. Is trans a cult? Why are they so keen on recruiting? What's that about? I refuse to believe that it's comparable to being gay and that the population maintains a figure throughout history of likely numbers of lgb people - as in I believe that's true for them but not trans folk.

I think there's a spike around now that will dissipate soon enough. Bit like the baby boom I suppose.

PurpleOva · 18/11/2018 13:27

I'm currently (in between toddler demands for sandwiches) watching this from about a year ago about the trans agenda Queenofthedrivensnow. It's pretter interesting so far, so I'm interested to see the conclusion if there is one... although have to make more sandwiches first!

R0wantrees · 18/11/2018 13:29

What is it about the Mermaids all-affirmation and no-debate position is it that you think is serving gender confused children well? Because from where I'm standing, it turns on its head everything we know about child and adolescent development, the dangers of blaming mental ill health on a single issue, medical ethics, confidentiality and safeguarding . All without any sort of adequate research that could show us why this is the best and only path?

BMJ article by medics: 'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
(extract)
"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles"

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

Rumbledore · 18/11/2018 13:38

Lol

Tomorrows Mail on Sunday Front Page
LangCleg · 18/11/2018 13:39

India has no idea how cult member paranoid that sounds!

AspieAndProud · 18/11/2018 13:41

The currently increased estimate of the transgender population (from the USA) is 0.6% transgender, but that of course includes adults as well.

The autistic population is estimated to be about 0.6% too.

Someone might want to check my maths but I f the conditions are independent then the chances of anyone having both conditions is 0.6% x 0.6% = 0.0036%.

So how big is this school if it has 17 such cases?

Where are all the transkids who aren’t autistic?

They ought to represent 99.4% of all transkids.

Popchyk · 18/11/2018 13:46

The BBC says that 2% of its staff identify as transgender.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5905129/BBC-chief-stunned-secret-staff-sex-survey-reveals-417-workers-transgender.html

If we use that statistic and apply it to the population as a whole, then it means that over 1.3 million people in the UK identify as transgender.

Much more than the tiny minority that is frequently touted.

VickyEadie · 18/11/2018 13:47

It continues to astonish me how incredibly keen the adult trans people are to sustain and even increase the child trans population.

Significantly, of course, many of the adult trans people keen on this have not mutilated their bodies in the ways that they seem keen for children to do.

R0wantrees · 18/11/2018 13:49

India Willoughby's views on Mumsnet are a matter of record:

In opinion article for Pink News April 2018, the journalist India Willoughby wrote:

(extract)
"The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people. (continues)

I defy anyone to visit Mumsnet right now, look up transgender, and tell me that the vicious and mocking threads about trans people would be allowed about any other demographic. It’s the stuff of pitchforks and lanterns. The same rhetoric about race, religion on sexuality would lead to prosecutions and official condemnation.

Mumsnet CEO Justine Roberts squeals that trans people highlighting the content – including threads which out trans people – to some of the site’s main advertisers is out of order. She describes it as an attack on free speech. This might be a shock to Justine, but trans people have free speech, too.

There’s even a debate about introducing a new trans Section 28, clamping down on educating the public about what transgender is.

Justine is adamant there’s nothing transphobic on Mumsnet. Only reasoned debate. She wants transgender visitors to Mumsnet to be “happy and supported.” It feels reminiscent of when Cruella de Vil opens a home for stray dogs in 101 Dalmatians.

As I say, take a look for yourself. Trans groups are more than happy to debate any subject Justine or her murky corner of the web wants – but the material on the site isn’t a discussion. It’s vicious, nasty persecution

Mumsnet’s reputation for transphobia is fully deserved. Hardliners openly strategise ways to make life tougher for trans people: Passengers warned not to travel on sleeper trains because they might end up in the same sleeping berth as a woman who’s trans. Support gathered to stop trans women being allowed on Labour’s all-women shortlists. National meeting organised where they can clap and cheer their hatred.

It’s all very similar to the way the National Front used to operate.

I’m sure most people who use the site are decent folk. They want nothing to do with the rabid mouth-frothing going on by so-called “feminists.”

And I say so-called “feminists” quite deliberately. It’s the point which is paralysing anyone doing anything about the situation. Because these radical groups are hiding under the “feminist” banner, Government and other institutions are reluctant to question them. They don’t want to be perceived as attacking “women’s rights.” (continues)

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/24/india-willoughby-transphobia-opinion-worried-for-my-life-mumsnet/

this followed an interview with Jukia Hartley Brewer and Justine Roberts:

Rumbledore · 18/11/2018 14:04

I've just watched that interviews with JH again. I wonder if her daughter went on that GG residential!

SophoclesTheFox · 18/11/2018 14:16

Hey India, as you're watching and monitoring us so closely, do you fancy having a stab at my questions that I posed at 12.52 today?

Or really anyone that thinks all this is silly mummies getting in a tizz because the Daily Wail told them so. I'd be keen to hear your responses.

AspieAndProud · 18/11/2018 14:38

If this were a group the Guardian gave a shit about being sterilised do you think they’d be silent?

If any other minority was being chemically castrated on an industrial scale it would be headline news every day.

StealthPolarBear · 18/11/2018 14:46

Aspie and proud, that should be 0.36%. About 1 in 300

AspieAndProud · 18/11/2018 14:53

I’m multiplying percentages.

0.36% is over half of 0.6%

BettyDuMonde · 18/11/2018 14:53

Hey India!

You do realise that if all these kids get transed, you Unique Selling Point as a media personality will crumble like dust?

You’ll be just another boring-old-middle-aged person, nowt special at all.

AspieAndProud · 18/11/2018 14:56

So we’d be looking at 0.6% of 0.6%.

TimeLady · 18/11/2018 14:59

Tinfoil hat theory? Increasing the dating pool. Women with penises can date men without.......