Karen White case on Jeremy Vine at 1pm today

[DisappearingFish]

I can't listen as I'll be working but heads up if anyone else can.

Richard Garside will be on.

Oh you should have done! She spoke a lot more sense than Jeremy and was surprisingly polite when she was basically detailing how her experience is being negated by woke wazzocks like him calling men women.

I think JV was great, he has a wonderful style which I have grown to appreciate over time. He never stoops to ridiculing even in the most obvious cases. He uses his questions to let people tell the story so they lay the facts bare. In following BBC policy with the pronouns used he helped to show how ridiculous this policy and the blanket thinking surrounding it is. I like to think from listening to him for years that this was deliberate, not some woke bullshit.

Disclaimer I do not know this man and might be projecting.

Roughly when did the segment start and finish?

He took the piss a bit once when I heard him interview a flat earther on his show...

It started at 1.

Speaking I think it was about 1-1.40

Sorry Destinys

Also, doesn’t that recent case where the Christian bakers were told they couldn’t be forced to say something that went against their beliefs, apply here? We shouldn’t have to say men with penises are women when we ( or anyone ) don’t believe it?

She exposed himself

Did he really say that???

That is fucking hilarious. Honest to Godddddd.

'She exposed himself' WTF ha ha ha. And Paula ty. Voice of reason.

Did I hear right .... justice chap (I'm sorry I didn't get his name) says currently a MTF prisoner who self IDs as a woman could only be placed in a women's prison if they have a GRC?

I'm not able to listen but this point is true.

Can that be so? Surely if White does have a GRC, the press would not be able to disclose that fact? That is, they would not be able to report him as "transgender"?

I have always assumed that none of the trans prisoners in womens' jails that we actually hear about (hear named) have a GRC, for that reason.

I think the "broadcasters must use say transwomen are women" line was a veiled way to tell us all that actually, he doesn't believe what he is saying. That's a very difficult position to put any journalist in. Being unable to report a story as they think it should be told - using the truth.

Ricky Gervais now.

Did I hear right .... justice chap (I'm sorry I didn't get his name) says currently a MTF prisoner who self IDs as a woman could only be placed in a women's prison if they have a GRC?

This was the case, I believe it is not now. They are assessed (!) on a case by case basis. If they have a GRC they automatically go into the prision of their new gender. Without one they can request being moved and may or may not be told yes.

Thanks.

At the moment, prison policy is that if you have a GRC you get automatic transfer. If you don't, you're assessed on a case-by-case basis.

For top security prisononers with a GRC, they still get treated as female, but there is no top security facility in the female estate.

This is just prison policy. They don't have to do any of it. Exemptions are written into equality law that means they can keep all these sex offenders out of women's prisons.

Should they ever deem the rape or sexual assault of incarcerated women something that should not be confined to mediaeval torture history.

The Guardian says (www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison)

The new 60-page policy introduced in January 2017 emphasised the right of prisoners to “self-identify” and to be treated “according to the gender in which they identify”. Previously, prisoners requiring such treatment would have needed a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) or to have had a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

I'm really struggling to understand how people who actually work in prisons think this way.

Ordinary, naive people maybe, but prison workers?

from what the relative of the other prisoner said, It sounded like KW had stipulations applied to their move to a women's prison. They were apparently supposed to wear a wig- presumably to make them appear feminine- and didn't.

Now, aside from the fact that wearing a wig doesn't make someone a woman, here is evidence that KW didn't appear to identify as her feminine self all of the time.

So why oh why didn't the Governor remove them from the female prison?

I think calling White 'she' is the only way of highlighting that this is the world we live in now. Karen is a woman because Karen says so. No matter what.

I am coming round to thinking like this.

The more you say things like 'she raped someone with her penis' the more the general public is going to go 'what the actual fuck.....'

There is very little that will peak people faster.

And many thanks to Karen White for looking like a particularly feminine, girly girl because of course her appearance helps our cause massively too.

I'm glad Ricky wrote that. I've found there are loads of celebrities (especially male comedians) who gleefully poke fun at people who believe in God, citing that their belief is based on not much but faith, and yet are very very quiet when it comes to this faith based issue.

Most people who work in prision disagree with this policy. I've seen several warnings from governors etc who recognise the risks it brings. And the nature of predators to take advantage of any loopholes they can find.

Unfortunately they don't make the policies - they're just the ones clearing up the mess.

I don’t agree about calling convicted rapist Stephen Wood “she”. To me it confuses the issue. He is and has at all relevant times been a legal man and the courtesy of using his alias should surely be withdrawn as all sides accept it was only adopted in order to make his sexual assaults easier.

To me it’s like referring to “Sir Jimmy”. It might shock you but I promise my teenagers would simply think that was the proper name for him.

I'm really struggling to understand how people who actually work in prisons think this way.

Its worth listening to Anne Ruzylo's speech from the Manchester 'Standing for Women' meeting.

Anne Ruzylo worked in prisons and gives background as well as sharing insight from those currently working with the policies.

speech at 28:00

I really don’t think you can blame Jeremy for sticking to the she pronoun. Hmhes in the BBC, look what happened to Jenni Murray. He’d be sacked if he repeatedly said he.