Karen White case on Jeremy Vine at 1pm today

[DisappearingFish]

I can't listen as I'll be working but heads up if anyone else can.

Richard Garside will be on.

I did, I read it. I just want to check that I have understood your assertion.

I don't honestly know what your point is and you are beginning to annoy me.

Humans cannot change sex, they can have plastic surgery to mimic the genitalia that they identify with, but they cannot actually change into a different sex

Humans cannot change sex. They can take drugs and have surgery to modify their bodies but they can't change sex.

Men cannot become women. Women are not non penised men. I identify as a tortoise. I can have surgery to
Make me look more like a tortoise. I’m still not a tortoise.

You would need to change your chromosomes to actually 'change sex.' Can you do that now?

I initially read the title as "Karen White is on Jeremy Vine", and the scary thing is that that didn't seem particularly unlikely to me, given the level of pandering that's already happening.

Vine tying himself up in knots at the "she exposed himself to a child". Just listen to yourself

I like to think from listening to him for years that this was deliberate, not some woke bullshit
Yes, I agree. I’ve always thought Jeremy Vine was a bit dim (which is ironic as it’s his brother that’s called Tim). But I think this ‘tripping up’ over how to say that particular sentence (because he made it clear as he said it that he was trying to not get it ‘wrong’) was actually quite clever. Borne out by his retweet’s I suppose. Might have to re-evaluate my opinion of him.

I’ve heard JV interview Paris Lees and he was v sympathetic to them so I wasn’t expecting a great discussion today tbh. But the ridiculousness of this ( and the sheer horror of it ) may have given him pause for thought. Hearing him trip over his words today, having to say ‘ she exposed her penis to a child’ ( paraphrasing) was excruciating for us and must have been for him too..

Snowy I'm cheating here and copying part of my post from another thread. It's about the difference between transmen and transwomen and the dangers connected. I'll hunt out another one I posted for more detail.

There was a prision competition recently for fitness. It was won by a transwoman and other prisoners said there was no point in their entering. Because even with hormones and steroids etc a women is unlikely to be as strong as a man. They will likely not have the increased height or reach.

A man is more of a risk to women that a woman, even if that woman presents as male.

Yes, transmen should be in the female estate, as in fact they always are. If there is a special transgender wing created then they could go in the transmen section but until that happens they should be in the female estate and treated as a potential higher risk female. They should not share a cell with a non male presenting woman though in my opinion.

The other post that I think is relevant. It was replying to someone who thinks all transwomen should go on female prision.

Given that one in five women in the general population have been sexually assaulted and we know it is far higher in the prision population do you understand that for a large number of women being locked in with men (or those they perceive to be men if you prefer) would be highly traumatic?

Given they are usually in for far more minor crimes than men (not paying tv license for example ) and that their crimes are very frequently in order yo support a family member, do you feel that their incarceration should be made far worse by being locked in with men?

Do you understand that many women can't be in close contact with male non family members because of religious reasons and that to incarcerate them together prevents them from the right of practising their religion?

Do you understand that even without all that human rights laws state that males and females should be incarcerated separately?

There was a prision competition recently for fitness. It was won by a transwoman and other prisoners said there was no point in their entering

The article also included comment on how distressing it was for the female prisoners to have to shower with a male.
The article is from February 2018.

This echoes the important testimony from a relative of a female prisoner who was forced to take communal showers with White.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675.amp
(extract)
“It was surreal. Everybody knew it wasn’t very fair, but nobody was allowed to say it.

“The women inmates have had to accept that Stewart is being allowed to live as a woman, despite not having had surgery.

“That means she is in the showers at the same time as other inmates, which some have found quite awkard.

“She has the right to determine her own gender.

“That is fine because the vast majority of the women believe in inclusiveness and equality.

“She trained hard and won the event by some distance. A country mile.” (continues)

Alex Stewart the male prisoner in this article was involved with further issues in female prison estate with another male prisoner which impacted women:
May 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242264-Transgender-murders-in-Scottish-womens-prison

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242178-Transgender-killers-split-up-by-prison-chiefs

You know how TRAs complain that they're offended and apparently that matters? I'm deeply offended by the idea that the "neovagina" resulting from surgery done on a penis and testicles is in any way the same thing as the vagina I was born with. It's not, and claiming that it is reeks of misogyny.

A woman is not just a collection of orifices for men to stick their cocks in.

I’m deeply offended by women being forced to share a communal shower with Karen White.

If this was being reported about another country - say Russia - we would be up in arms about Hunan rights.

Why in God's name do they let these disgusting men shower with the women prisoners? Surely they could manage that better. That just makes me want to weep. Forcing someone to be naked with the opposite sex is inhuman and degrading treatment. I'd sue their arses of when I got out. Yes I do know most women prisoners couldn't afford to do that but shit, I would.

I'm (sadly) waiting for one of these incarcerated females to be raped AND PREGNANT. Would I be mistaken that the prison service would be on the hook for 18 years of child support? What do they expect to happen when you trap a bunch of women in a cell with a personwithapenis?

Are they going to claim that women who do crime, must now expect to become pregnant while in jail?

Why in God's name do they let these disgusting men shower with the women prisoners? Surely they could manage that better. That just makes me want to weep. Forcing someone to be naked with the opposite sex is inhuman and degrading treatment. I'd sue their arses of when I got out. Yes I do know most women prisoners couldn't afford to do that but shit, I would.

I know. It fills me with utter rage on their behalf.

“That means she is in the showers at the same time as other inmates, which some have found quite awkard.

The way those women's distress is understated by this comment boils my blood.

The other thing that Anne Ruzlo was saying at one of the meetings I went to was that a lot of these men are paedophiles and they will strike up friendships in the female prisons with mothers who are often very vulnerable people. And they will make arrangements to meet up with those mothers when they get out as a friend....

I don't want there to be any incentive for anyone to have the complex and devastating surgery we are talking about. Men in the male estate, women in the female estate. Female prisoners are extremely vulnerable - male prisoners aren't much better, in fact, with incredibly high numbers of head injuries, learning disabilities, speech and language disorders, mental health problems - and self harm. I would be doubtful of the consent process to this terrible surgery if it carries the overwhelming incentive of getting out of a male prison wing onto a secure trans wing (we hope) or even the female estate.

Its a very well-recognised tactic of paedophiles to target vunerable single mothers.
Women in prison are especially vulnerable, many are mothers.

Snowy simply, it’s impossible to change DNA. A man can have all the surgery want but they’ll still be biologically a man.

That is an excellent point Annadale.

Also excellent Terfedoff.