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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This is wrong right?

642 replies

DukeOfSussex · 18/09/2018 19:31

If your teenage daughter had her first week at the University of Sussex this week this is what found in her welcome bag.

A Pot Noodle, A tablet of washing detergent, a sim card and an individual sized portion of instant coffee.

AND

A picture of a woman designed to look like she has spunk dripping down her face to sell toothbrushes. "whether you spit or swallow during your twice daily oral regime..."

She'll also find a drinks night event by the Student union being advertised all over campus. It has a picture of a dead eyed half naked woman laying in an empty bath...which advertises what? Fuck knows.

She will also find a copy of the student newspaper in her bag. On the front cover at the very top of the page is an article entitled "Transphobia and toilets". This is discussing the recent words of University of Sussex philosophy professor Kathleen Stock who dared to very (politely) question some aspects of trans theory.

Your daughter, if disabled, will also be concerned to see that some of the disabled toilets have been declared "for all genders". Which is lovely and inclusive but not ideal if you're disabled and need a wee and need to wait for an able bodied non binary male wearing lipstick to go for a shit first.

She will find that the "This Sussex Girl Can" all women only classes are open to all "women, trans gender people and non binary individuals" so just mixed classes basically .

So far so expected of university in general but what upsets me is that people wanted Kathleen Stock's job for having an opinion. She caused students to feel "unsafe" with her very words, but in a world where women are literally unsafe and sexual assault is endemic in universities, Sussex student union didn't think twice before objectifying its female students. If your employer gave you a goody bag with this card in it you could rightfully be making a formal complaint to your HR department. Why is it appropriate for university?

We can't discuss why it's always a woman advertising drinks, or toothbrushes without discussing women and the group of people who actually deal with the real repercussions of being women. It's a bloody joke.Why don't people care about actual sexism, real life objectification of women.

OP posts:
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Happityhap · 20/09/2018 18:32

can alter their hormones but not enough to be in the range of normal hormone levels for the other sex.

Rach5ll · 20/09/2018 18:38

Oh god this is fucking grim

nopeni · 20/09/2018 18:39

Also, Universities aren't places where you're just meant "to learn", like it's some passive process that doesn't in itself change you.

They're places to live, study, work and talk with other intellectual people - you'll be taught some stuff, you'll research for yourself, you'll disagree with a lot and you'll grow and become a different person over the years because of it all.

Universities aren't supposed to be safe cosy places where you're never challenged. I'm not sure why they're turning into the next level of childcare.

Ereshkigal · 20/09/2018 18:44

5. A few of you referenced biology. This argument is as old as time - saying "uh, biology!!!!" clearly shows that you have done zero research into the science behind trans identities.

Even most of the non scientists here have done a shitload more research than you into this sweetie, as you demonstrate by your use of the tedious op ed that Bowl almost predicted (she thought you'd pick the similarly oft plopped Nature one). What's next, the clownfish facebook post?

Go on. Argue with Bowl about science. I'll sell tickets.

Ereshkigal · 20/09/2018 18:48

What's so worrying is that men can actually do this stuff and that no one in the whole chain - pitching it, design, the text, printing, packaging, posting, filling goody bags has looked at it and said, "hold on a minute".

It just shows the extent to which the porn culture and misogynistic views of women have such a grasp. And evidently how powerless those working at Brushbox are if they couldn't point out the awfulness of this (I am assuming that women and men with children actually work in the place?) Must be a vile company to work for as this evidently represents their corporate values.

Yes.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/09/2018 18:49

I am fairly positive that dennis does not mate

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/09/2018 18:52

I wonder if rw's lecturers are on MN...

If they are they are keeping very, very quiet about it

Can't think why

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/09/2018 18:55

Go on. Argue with Bowl about science. I'll sell tickets.

Oh goodness yes please

rw please have a science debate with bowl

Pppppplllllleeeeeeaaaaaassssseeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Halfeatentoast · 20/09/2018 18:55

This is, quite simply, horrifying. I have no words.

InionEile · 20/09/2018 19:24

"....which are aimed at especially making women safer on nights out."

What's that, @rw280? 'Women' did you say? I don't understand that word. What does 'women' mean? Is it people who menstruate? People who have vaginas? XX chromosomes-holders?

I'm just confused because later you say that not all 'women' have vaginas so I'm not sure what the word 'women' means to you. I certainly hope that your transexlusionary language above does not imply that only ciswomen feel unsafe at night-time. I hope you are familiar with the many many statistics out there that show that trans-identified people are in fact 5,000 times more at risk of assault than any cisgender menstruator - if not, then google it!

And please stop using such transexclusionary language in your posts on here. I find it deeply offensive. Start centering other-gendered individuals in your night-time safety campaigns, you thoughtless privileged cissexist cisgender person, you.

BabyTeeth · 20/09/2018 19:31

Brighton Argus report:

www.theargus.co.uk/news/16891702.sexist-toothpaste-ad-is-branded-offensive/

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 20/09/2018 19:40

What, so it's not just mumsy meanies in the viper's nest that is FWR who found it objectionable? Grin

Thanks for spotting that, BabyTeeth.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 20/09/2018 19:42

How odd that all the reports have shown the image except for the Guardian?!

Do they think their readership is too fragile to look at it?

All they have done is got their readers interested to see the pic and pointed them via google to some other news outlets Grin

Movablefeast · 20/09/2018 20:07

I graduated from Sussex and I am not remotely surprised that a recent graduate knows nothing about human biology.

Ereshkigal · 20/09/2018 20:09

Lol Grin

GColdtimer · 20/09/2018 20:25

Poll results depressing. 53% say it's sexist, 47% say it fine.

BabyTeeth · 20/09/2018 20:28

Brexit-like split

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 20:31

Male female type split?

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 20:34

Typical Independent to have a poll. 'we aren't sure if this shitty thing is shitty. Let's leave it open to doubt by asking all the shitty sexists what they think'

Why don't you do a poll on whether men are women, ya big flakes

BabyTeeth · 20/09/2018 20:34

Crossed the pond!
This one takes a good angle and is well written and funny.
www.fastcompany.com/90239607/brand-wtf-of-the-week-brushbox-somehow-made-a-toothbrush-sexist

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 20:36

Oh yeah it's because you don't mind dismissing women's fears but you are actively afraid of XY

GColdtimer · 20/09/2018 20:38

"clearly shows that you have done zero research into the science behind trans identities. Biologists agree that sex and gender are separate concepts, and that identities outside of cisgender exist and are valid"

Well I feared I hadn't done enough research into this hugely difficult area. So I just asked a biologist. A proper one. She has a PhD and everything. She said you are talking absolute bollock. HTH.

Ereshkigal · 20/09/2018 20:41

Typical Independent to have a poll. 'we aren't sure if this shitty thing is shitty. Let's leave it open to doubt by asking all the shitty sexists what they think'

sums it up! Grin

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 20:41

Trans identities are valid is such an empty statement