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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This is wrong right?

642 replies

DukeOfSussex · 18/09/2018 19:31

If your teenage daughter had her first week at the University of Sussex this week this is what found in her welcome bag.

A Pot Noodle, A tablet of washing detergent, a sim card and an individual sized portion of instant coffee.

AND

A picture of a woman designed to look like she has spunk dripping down her face to sell toothbrushes. "whether you spit or swallow during your twice daily oral regime..."

She'll also find a drinks night event by the Student union being advertised all over campus. It has a picture of a dead eyed half naked woman laying in an empty bath...which advertises what? Fuck knows.

She will also find a copy of the student newspaper in her bag. On the front cover at the very top of the page is an article entitled "Transphobia and toilets". This is discussing the recent words of University of Sussex philosophy professor Kathleen Stock who dared to very (politely) question some aspects of trans theory.

Your daughter, if disabled, will also be concerned to see that some of the disabled toilets have been declared "for all genders". Which is lovely and inclusive but not ideal if you're disabled and need a wee and need to wait for an able bodied non binary male wearing lipstick to go for a shit first.

She will find that the "This Sussex Girl Can" all women only classes are open to all "women, trans gender people and non binary individuals" so just mixed classes basically .

So far so expected of university in general but what upsets me is that people wanted Kathleen Stock's job for having an opinion. She caused students to feel "unsafe" with her very words, but in a world where women are literally unsafe and sexual assault is endemic in universities, Sussex student union didn't think twice before objectifying its female students. If your employer gave you a goody bag with this card in it you could rightfully be making a formal complaint to your HR department. Why is it appropriate for university?

We can't discuss why it's always a woman advertising drinks, or toothbrushes without discussing women and the group of people who actually deal with the real repercussions of being women. It's a bloody joke.Why don't people care about actual sexism, real life objectification of women.

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ifonlyus · 21/09/2018 11:39

Sussex and its student union prides itself on it's wokeness, but when it comes to sexism it looks the other way or outright contributes to a hostile environment for women I don't think it is unfair. That they're all doing it is doesn't change it for me

Me neither. I'm really curious about the 'lad culture' advisory panel set up 3 years ago using a pilot of 9 universities which includes Sussex. I wonder if there is a report of any progress made. I am going to dig further.

BBCTanya · 21/09/2018 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn.

Charliethefeminist · 21/09/2018 12:29

If you're getting comments why not give Kathleen Stock a call.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 21/09/2018 12:35

Reported.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 21/09/2018 12:37

If you genuinely work for the BBC you would know you can't trawl for interviews on Mumsnet, Tanya. Fast way to a ban.

BBCTanya · 21/09/2018 12:43

Apologies. My Twitter is Tanya_Gupta. Happy to delete my Mumsnet account.

DukeOfSussex · 21/09/2018 12:47

Huffpo journo private messaged me here so they may not realise that. I've already given permission for photos to be used up thread. @bbctanya but I'd like to a link to the original thread please if you them.

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DukeOfSussex · 21/09/2018 12:49

I think @bbctanya just wants the photos and is offering to talk to me about that not asking for an interview.

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BBCTanya · 21/09/2018 12:50

Hi DukeofSussex - new to mumsnet, thank you for sticking up for me and thanks for permission. Will certainly send you a link, Tanya

Charliethefeminist · 21/09/2018 12:56

Tanya: I don't think Duke wants you to send her a link to the story. She would like you to link to the twitter thread if you use the pics. Is that right Duke? Or did I misunderstand.

DukeOfSussex · 21/09/2018 12:59

I mean I'd like her to link here to the MN thread if possible in the story.

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BettyDuMonde · 21/09/2018 13:06

Please link any stories back to this thread, any journos reading it - it’s important to see it in context (and we want the hits for Mumsnet, who continue to host discussions that have been near universally shut down elsewhere - see what happened at Durham University and indeed, what’s been happening to Dr Stock at Sussex - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3371733-Times-reporting-the-sacking-of-Angelos-Sodocleos )

We need words to have universal meanings so that we can describe women’s experiences and collect data on sexual harrasment, sex discrimination and violence against women and girls. This is all connected.

BabyTeeth · 21/09/2018 13:10

This thread does need credit. Much unpaid labour has been done here - and elsewhere - to provide content for hundreds of thousands of clicks.

BBCTanya · 21/09/2018 13:12

Got it. Happy to xx

BettyDuMonde · 21/09/2018 13:13

Dr Stock of Sussex Uni in her own words:

www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/06/changing-the-concept-of-woman-will-cause-unintended-harms

Standing up for women and girls does not mean being anti transpeople.

DukeOfSussex · 21/09/2018 13:14

@bbctanya thanks Flowers

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BettyDuMonde · 21/09/2018 13:16

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3371978-Woman-maybe-kills-3

Today’s discussion on why we need the words and freedom to name Male violence.

Nondescriptname · 21/09/2018 13:24

We need words to have universal meanings so that we can describe women’s experiences and collect data on sexual harrasment, sex discrimination and violence against women and girls. This is all connected.

Absolutely.

Woman = Adult Human Female (not someone assigned female on a certificate or in their own head)

disorganisedXX · 21/09/2018 13:32

The thread has publicity, let's use it.

Let's have a roll call and see what all of the universities have on offer for freshers this month and how they are acting in the interests of the female population.

disorganisedXX · 21/09/2018 13:34

Ah cross post!

ifonlyus · 21/09/2018 13:45

I’m tired of reading ‘sorry you were offended’

I am not offended by the image and text that appears on the wearable beer mats. They make me feel sad, sickened and scared for my daughter and other girls and young women, as I am reminded that this is how a large group of grown men view teenage girls. They don’t stop to question whether every 18 year old starting university is sexually active or experienced or would welcome unsolicited imagery of this type. They just assume.

It isn’t even a sexualised ad targeted at males, to sell something to males – which would still be bad but we’re so used to that. This is an item that was distributed to men and women - a wearable porn-image – given to young women on their first day of University, before they know anyone well enough to have a trusted group of friends to denounce such a thing, designed to make 18 year old women participate in their own subjugation. That they thought this would be well received by young people – reminds me how normalised porn-culture is.

Every week and sometimes every day, something is in the news that gives me a slap in the face and reminds me that the two female children I gave birth to, who I nurture, educate, fight for, have high hopes for, are considered 2nd class citizens in our developed nation in 2018. I’m not offended. I’m insulted. I’m angry. How dare they be so dismissive of half the population.

needsmoresleep I totally agree with your posts. I think Universities need to step up and do more. It all sounds so Lord of the Flies.

BabyTeeth · 21/09/2018 13:53

Hello welcome to Sussex, slip on this easy-to-wear porn outfit on the way in to get you feeling right at home propping up the patriarchy from day one.

BabyTeeth · 21/09/2018 16:08

BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-45603348

The SU apology has expanded but unfortunately Brushbox are still in the 'could be seen as' zone.

IAmLurkacus · 21/09/2018 16:19

Other than Dr Stock is there actually anything GOOD about Sussex university?

drspouse · 21/09/2018 16:21

Someone once suggested I apply there, because it's close to the beach...
So there's that!