BISH - "proudly supported by....."

[Candidpeel]

As @R0wantree linked to on the thread on crossing out 'gender' for 'sex' on school forms, but this deserves its own thread.

Take a look at 'BISH' website for teens.

www.bishuk.com/about-you/whats-your-gender/

Has a helpful diagram. People called 'he' and who look masculine tend to be tough, active and independent. People called 'she' and who look feminine tend to be soft, emotional and passive.

He goes into schools and youth clubs and gives training to teachers on sex and relationship education with this shit! bishtraining.com/

"Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size. Many people are in the middle of this spectrum with how their bodies are configured."

WTAF? There is a spectrum as to where the prostate is? that makes just as much sense as saying there is a spectrum as to where the uterus is between males and females !

"Currently I’m heavily involved in the DO … project. This is a campaign to make great sex and relationships education happen in schools." www.dosreforschools.com/

BISH and the DO SRE FOR SCHOOLS project are both sponsored by Durex and DO involves serious people who know about biology like the Family Planning Association, Brook and the National Association of Headteachers.

....I hope they were just not paying attention. I think we could bring it to the attention of their twitter accounts that they are supporting the promotion of sexism and absolute biological nonsense into schools.

Wtaf?

Justin Hancock the founder of Bish is 'mates' and works collaberatively with Dr Meg-John Barker (Of the BCAP sex, gender good practice guide)

relevent threads:
As CandidPeel mentions, discussion started and moved over from:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3357449-am-i-right-to-cross-out-gender-on-my-child-s-school-form-and-change-it-to-sex

Dr Meg-John Barker
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3350668-The-British-Association-for-Counselling-and-Psychotherapy-have-come-up-with-Definition-of-woman
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3356199-New-OU-Course-on-gender-identity

Edward Lord
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3352843-First-there-was-Jess-Bradley-then-the-Challenors-now-Edward-Lord
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3323475-Surprise-The-Masons-now-welcome-Transwomen-but-not-women
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3317922-City-of-London-Corporation-consultation-is-out-this-covers-Hampstead-Ponds
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3316098-Childrens-Convenor-Elected-Councillor-calls-women-cunts-on-Twitter-rants

Write to Durex to complain?

From article in OP
(further extract)
"For one, like I point out in this article, sex is a very complicated idea. It’s not just about our chromosomes (a lot of people don’t know what theirs are, XX, XY, XXY … ) but also; which hormones kick in, when they kick in and how they kick in; and then how genitals may take shape. Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size. Many people are in the middle of this spectrum with how their bodies are configured.

Also sex, like gender, is not just about biology but is also to do with how we feel about ourselves and what society tells us about ourselves – it’s biopsychosocial."

e.g. Reckitt Benkiser (they also own dettol, nurofen)

twitter.com/discoverRB
twitter.com/durex

From the site aimed at 14+ the podcast (linked below) with Meg-John Barker says Bish is one of the most influential sites for young people on sex, gender and relationships in the world:
'Who do you follow on social media
Written by Justin Hancock on July 9, 2018. Posted in Your Call

So you know how there are people who are famous on social media, like: Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, MySpace, Bebo, etc? Well, a lot of these people are famous in talking about sex, relationships, sexuality, gender, which is obviously what we’re all about here at BISH.

The reason I’m thinking about this now is that the other night I was at a party at Instagram HQ in London :nails emoji: I was there because me and my mate Meg-John were interviewing some of these folk for our podcast (which is not usually for young people, but you might like this one ). soundcloud.com/megjohnjustin/gender-and-sexual-diversity-discussion-panel-for-pride

So I thought that I’d write a blog post about them and also ask you, dear reader, for which social media people (also known as influencers) you follow. Here are the people I met last week, who are really cool.

So I met Sade Giliberti, who is a South African TV presenter and works to raise awareness of LGBTQ issues: www.instagram.com/onesadie/ She was saying to us that she gets lots of young people contacting her and asking for advice.

Also there was Hannah Winterbourne – In 2013, Hannah came out as a transgender woman and became the highest ranking transgender soldier within the British Army. www.instagram.com/hannahw253/

And lastly there was Jessica Kellgren Fozard a disabled, gay YouTuber who writes about life with wife Claudia: www.instagram.com/jessicaoutofthecloset/

Not on the panel, but someone I think is cool is Hannah Witton. She is sex educator on YouTube and made this excellent video on sex worker rights, this one about what she (and her fans) wish they learnt about sexual health and this one where she gives BISH a big shout out 🙂

www.bishuk.com/your-call/who-do-you-follow/

The issue is less with Durex and more with schools!

This is so depressing...

@R0wantrees - i agree, but Durex is providing funding, and also legitimacy which must help this get into schools (its not just some random bloke who likes to confuse teenagers about sex. He is sponsored by a FTSE 100 company and a major household brand....it must be legit!)

Durex also has a brand with a reputation that might act (i.e. pull its sponsorship) if it was brought to public attention that it had given its name to dodgy sexist nonsense.

There's a problem with those gender scales. There should be a scale of

Northern...........................Southern

where the prostate is

ROFL - is this to avoid mentioning that women and men have different organs entirely.... So now we have a prostate location spectrum - a bloke's being in the normal place for a bloke, and a woman's being non-existant.

I shouldn't think its in the interests of Durex to have a bunch of sexual science illiterates coming into adolescence. If no-one is male or female anymore how do you know when to use condoms?

Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size

I am not a small-penised, big-fannied man, for the record.

Looks like Justin and meg-john have written a couple of books together, on the practicalities and enjoyment of sex.

Anyone brave enough to "Look Inside" on amazon?

Anlaf

I'm still picking my jaw off the floor. What the actual hell is "inbetween" a clitoris and a penis? Do these arses actually believe this shit? Do they really think all men have really really tiny vaginas that we just haven't found yet?

Yes Alice I think that's right. Just a spectrum. And with the right medical treatment I can wee out of my penis? And our prostrates can be reinstated!

Trebles all round!

Probably deserves a thread of its own but here is Julie bindel back in 2003 ish on the mad rush to medically treat trans people with surgeries. She's posted a good thread on Twitter on this and the outcry that followed the article archive.li/1bcWN

*prostate

Look how far I've been psychically separated from my very small male organs! I can't even spell them right.

After googling I find he's close to Meg John Barker of recent BACP fame. It's simply not on that a small group of like-minded ideologues should be allowed to push their views unopposed or unquestioned in the powerful position of trainers. I'd say the same about any group with a specific slant.
Having said that some of his material seems quite good. It's the blurring of opinion (fantasy) and fact that really disturbs me.

This is fucking batshit. Of course all this could actually be solved by people actually TALKING to their children about sex, relationships and biology themselves.

Which I guess just means that those children who parents don’t talk to them or deliberately keep them misinformed so that they can abuse them are even more vulnerable to this utter, utter shit.

i am finding this especially upsetting! schools really really need good sex and relationship guidance, so i can imagine lots of right thinking teachers thinking they were doing a great thing by getting this training in.

the two schools that endorse the training on the website are very academic and are where some of the most privileged children in the world are educated. they are schools where the children are told they will be tomorrows leaders. one is a boys school. the thought of these kids swallowing this deeply sexist bullshit and then growing into so many privileged young men and holding positions of influence in our society is utterly chilling.

worth reading, 'Feminist Relationships and Sex Education' lesson plans:
(extract)
Lesson four is all about consent. The sobering statistic from the latest Natsal study shows how consent is an issue for all genders, with 1 in 10 women reporting having had sex against their will, compared with 1 in 71 men. There is also now a greater awareness of the violence that trans folk face on a daily basis, particularly thanks to the work of activists like Paris Lees.. Consent and power are at the heart of DO… and in the post #MeToo world there is a huge opportunity for all schools to centre these issues in their RSE — we have got you.
embedded link re Paris Lees: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/22/epidemic-violence-transgender-people-experienced-stonewall

'All of these resources have been written by myself and Alice Hoyle, with guidance from the DO… steering group and also my mate and colleague Meg-John Barker. They are available for free, without sign-up, from dorseforschools.com."

bishtraining.com/feminist-relationships-sex-education/

I can also imagine well meaning people going along with this. It supports that hazy idea that we're all just the same really, with just some minor differences in appendage size.

When it's really intended to queer (in the sense of Queer Theory) sex, so sex categories become meaningless and it's impossible to say what is a woman. What is a man? These are hard questions etc...

Then good luck trying to argue for women's rights.

More on Queer Theory here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3355827-Queer-theory-and-what-it-means-in-extremis

I feel physically ill at the idea that children are being taught that if they are rational, strong and natural leaders then they are male.

That whole "spectrum" of feelings reduces women to actual literal handmaidens who need men to guide them. What is the next step? If you want to vote you are must be a man and identify as such to do so? Work? Have your own bank account?

I had hoped so hard that by now, gender would no longer oppress and pigeonhole nonconforming young men and women but it just gets worse and worse.

And yes - I will complain to Durex.

-"Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size. Many people are in the middle of this spectrum with how their bodies are configured."-

I can already see boys being called half girls and bullied for some allegedly short penis.

aahhhh I'm not sure which one is more offensive the 'rational/emotional' or the 'active/passive' or all of them equally probably.

This is just another load of bullshit.

As for the 'genital spectrum' were these people sleeping during their GCSE biology classes ?