What makes men angry with women?

[Italiangreyhound]

What makes men angry with women?

Is this article of any interest? Does it offer any incites?

goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hidden-reason-men-angry-women-over-nothing-chwm/

Thanks in advance if anyone reads it.

That was an interesting read. On the one hand, I'm not a fan of psychoanalytic analysis - it always strikes me as a form of fantasy which is not amenable to scientific analysis.

Being fiction doesn't mean it can't hold truth, but only in the way that good fiction contains truth.

On the other hand, I am less and less convinced of the NAMALT argument, and this paragraph has considerable appeal, because it suggests that it is all men, but some manage to reconcile their anger.

"In his book, “Misogyny: The Male Malady”, anthropologist David Gilmore describes the near universal dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women that is built into the male psyche. He says it stems from unresolved conflicts between men’s intense need for and dependence upon women and their equally intense fear of that dependence—and the underlying reason for our anger is almost totally subconscious."

I've not read the article but they're angry at themselves and feeling inadequate aren't they. Fear.

"a woman's greatest fear is that a man will kill her.

A man's greatest fear is that a woman will laugh at him"

A man's greatest fear is that a woman will laugh at him" That's it, the ego innit.

He says it stems from unresolved conflicts between men’s intense need for and dependence upon women and their equally intense fear of that dependence—and the underlying reason for our anger is almost totally subconscious

I've thought this for sometime.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman

"In his book, “Misogyny: The Male Malady”, anthropologist David Gilmore describes the near universal dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women that is built into the male psyche. He says it stems from unresolved conflicts between men’s intense need for and dependence upon women and their equally intense fear of that dependence—and the underlying reason for our anger is almost totally subconscious."

That seems to be what the article is saying too, and what I've long felt.

That the first person to really let anyone down is usually mum (I'm a mum I've let my kids down a few times, in minor ways). Of course dads can let their kids down but there doesn't seem to be any expectation for dads, or certainly a long while ago. Dad came home from work and we were happy to see him (my experience) but his only real role in my house was bread winner (which went under the radar for me) and bed time story teller which we loved.

ItIsOkItIsASecret I've thought it too.

Vitalogy "...they're angry at themselves and feeling inadequate aren't they. Fear." But women also fear inadequacy and yet are not so angry.

I think the trouble is that patriarchy encourages the development of male ego and that through that males are socialised to have a false and inflated sense of their value, imortance, dominance etc reative to women; and that whilst I don't doubt that some or many or all men have some or all of the feelings/ beliefs described by Gilmore, as PP said this ego angst, I question whether these are intrinsic, that is to say genetic, predispositions in males.

From an evolutionary point of view, what purpose or benefit does this have? What genes or chromosomes do women have that mean we also do not have an innate desire to return to the womb? Or do we also have that but handle it differently? Do male animals have this sense or it is smethign that has gone worong in humans?

I think psychanalysis is derived from a highly patriarchal and paternalistic time and this skews its ability to look deeply at what came first.

The angst over dependence etc, I would argue comes from the false belief put about by patriarchy that men are supposed to be dominant and superior and independent - as if women are not really essential to anything - and when reality does not bear this false belief out (as it cannot because we all need women and we have value and many men love their mothers, sisters wives etc), men may feel a cognitive dissonance and rather than recognise this as simply a conflict between belief systems (eg as in religion vs science), if a man is unable understand and regulate and rationally process their emotions, they may well end up with feelings or anger rage and a sort of existential go crisis. Not dissimilar IMO to a narcisstic rage. Or in fact is a narcisstic rage at the lower end.

Simply stopping drilling down at the point of discovering or stating 'how men feel', does not help us at all. WHY is what matters, so we can stop or change it.

existential ego crisis not 'go' crisis

sorry for typos! brain thing.

And that as part of this crisis men externalise their inner conflict and turn it outward onto the trigger. So often a woman who inadvertantly has not complied with the males expectations of how things ould go.

I read something so very sad but true on a thread yesterday (which I anot cannot find, sorry) where a woman asked how best to deal with catcalling and sexual comments from men.

Different ideas were suggested (from fuck off to getting to safety with your head down) but an excellent point was made by someone was that in this situation, a woman is not really in control of the outcome, so in some snese no matter what she does it will be a problem.

However she may or may not respond (other than to simper and thank them for their manly attention) is likey to provoke some level of anger as a result of not complying with thier expectations that this will be a jokey and okay thing to do for his entertainemnt, and that a woman will not refuse him or challenge his perception of himself, his ego.

That the onus is put on women to have to overcome all that wihtout men having to change what is in thier heads and hearts is a huge problem IMO.

He says it stems from unresolved conflicts between men’s intense need for and dependence upon women and their equally intense fear of that dependence—and the underlying reason for our anger is almost totally subconscious

I've thought this for sometime.

Same here. I think this is the psychological basis, but there is the sociological basis too.

Males are socialised to expect that women and girls will service and serve their needs, to be their 'helpmates'. This socialisation instils a belief that one day they will get their 'allotted' woman.

The reality that women are fully conscious humans with free wills, personal preferences, likes and dislikes, including a dislike for being anyone's helpmate and servant, let alone his, jars sharply against this socialised male expectation and entitlement.

They feel short changed. That women are bitchy, aloof, cold.

Additionally males are peer-group socialised to expect that their 'allotted woman' will be beautiful, charming, supportive and raise their status and esteem amongst their male peers.

They can feel very disappointed, ashamed and resentful about the jarring reality that a woman doesn't look or act like this or resents all the pain and tedium of trying to achieve it.

Society sets men up to expect respect, earning power, sexual fulfilment and dominance, and when society, a date, wife, a work colleague fails to pay that debt the rage comes out. Also I expect silly laws that prevent men getting what they’re entitled to produce a fair bit of narcissistic rage as well.
There is a good reason why men commit far more crimes than women. Women aren’t socialised to expect what they want, how they want, and when they want it.

seafret interesting points.

Italian I've been thinking about this recently, too, and doing some googling. I found this, which makes uncomfortable reading, but I've seen similar points made by men before.

www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/sunday/harassment-men-libido-masculinity.html?_r=0

I don't care why. I just avoid them due to it.

Men never seem to question why they have this rage towards women...they just seem to accept their hatred and contempt and many of them indulge it and enjoy it.

Women question this part of men more than men do themselves.

I've always thought that the hatred comes from jealousy and that this jealousy feeds into both hating us and wanting to become us.

What are they jealous of?

Our ability to bond with each other, to feel and express our emotions, to accept our feelings (sexual or otherwise) for other women and to have a deeper and more effective emotional intelligence. Plus a number of other emotional and physical characteristics.

I think this jealousy causes them to want to show over and over how their opposite traits are the better and more worthy ones. So they are aggressive, homophobic, won't show feelings etc.

If they can't be the types of man who is aggressive, then they just want to take over those female traits and thus embody our sex.

Men are taught that vulnerability and dependency are shameful and disgusting and they grow to hate those tendencies in themselves. They cope by projecting it all onto us and then hating us instead.

Having sons I see the pressures they are under from peers. And despite knowing their friend/frenemies' families, decent kind respectful people in the main... These small people still come out with crashing stereotypes and macho bullshit and it's like cramming smoke back into a pot to contain it.

My more sensitive youngest even said when we were going to get school shoes today, "This must be fun for you... Girls love shoe shopping" I had to ask him to recall how many pairs of shoes I have and when he's ever seen me buying them. I gave him a look and told him it's rubbish. He took it on board a little but it's a constant onslaught.

This strikes a chord with me;
DH needs me as I’m the person who finds his keys, sorts his stuff, does his wife work but resents me as I’m the one who finds his keys, sorts his stuff and does his wife work.
Now I find DS aged 8 seems to be in an internal dilemma as he loves me but resents his dependency on me and maybe even resents his love for me. Is that where it begins?

Today’s media doesn’t help. Constantly offering women up on a plate like they’re meat then men get disappointed when they find out we’re not just readily available for their consumption in real life.

In my experience it’s often men who say they love women and the company of women who are the worst. What they really mean is that they like to hold court, practice charm and position themselves as alpha. They have the most fragile of egos and yet incredible self-importance. Their misogyny is so ingrained it is rampantly casual.

The article makes me feel a little uncomfortable because it might be interpreted as a defence of their behavior.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain "Men are taught that vulnerability and dependency are shameful and disgusting and they grow to hate those tendencies in themselves. They cope by projecting it all onto us and then hating us instead." I think I agree.

I don't think they are generally jealous of us, I don't think they value what we do or who we are. Although I do wonder if some envy the fact we don't necessarily have to be the bred winners (I know some women do not have any other option, but a few do).

bread winners