What makes men angry with women?

[Italiangreyhound]

What makes men angry with women?

Is this article of any interest? Does it offer any incites?

goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hidden-reason-men-angry-women-over-nothing-chwm/

Thanks in advance if anyone reads it.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno so your premise is that it is our 'control' of sex that makes men initially hate us?

Rather than the initial experience of being parented by a fallible mother?

I disagree, personally.

I think nowadays this 'control' of sex (or rather control of our own bodies) certainly contributes to some men's hatred.

Have you read the whole incel thing?

However, for much of human history women did not really control their own sexual experiences.

Rape is not unknown amongst primates, but even there the kinds of constant harassment that men inflict upon women are absent.

But other primates come into heat - so males are only interested when their are biological signals of sexual availability. So no need to harass. (Though of course they still like to dominate.)

Human females, on the other hand, are (biologically) potential sexual partners all the time. I can't help but suspect that some male anger toward women comes from strong male libido, and resentment that those desires are being frustrated, and that's why it starts developing in adolescence. Especially since young men don't tend to have much insight into the way the average girl feels about sex, and how that is likely to be different on to how they feel about it.

May I elaborate IfyouseeRitaMoreno.

I believe for much of history women have been seen as chattel. Men (perhaps with assistance from their wives) decided who girls would marry. In many cultures sex before marriage would have been anything from frowned upon to absolutely impossible to achieve.

Once married the husband may have seen his wife as a form of property to have sex with when he felt like. I am sure many loving and tender couples existed but a husband's 'right' to sex with his wife would not have been something up for debate in most cultures.

Maybe for the last three hundred years or so there was perhaps some chance for some women (divorced or widowed, women of independent worth) to take lovers or avoid sex and so have control more easily. easily.

However for married women the control may well have been with the husband. I am not sure when laws changed to include spousal rape but I think USA in the 80s, UK in the 90s???

So prior to that I think it would have been almost impossible for women to control their own sex lives legally.

This is maybe one reason some womem chose a religious life and thus avoided men altogether.

So it may be a modern phenomenon that women control sex but I don't think it is historic.

Especially since young men don't tend to have much insight into the way the average girl feels about sex, and how that is likely to be different on to how they feel about it.

This is one of the great cruelties of nature. Men just don't get female sexuality at all do they? They don't understand that female survival depends on not getting pregnant if possible, because pregnancy, birth and looking after infants are all risky to us. They imagine that women have something akin to the desperation penetrate and ejactulate that they have. Urges which are entirely absent in women. Newsflash men! We don't have those urges and we are not pretending they are absent to assert control over you.

Not really easily for most women bit those independent of men.

Exactly, Clarice.

There seems to be something wrong with the logical side of men's brains....even when faced with overwhelming evidence that men are more violent, aggressive and much more likely to hurt men and kill them, men STILL feel more anger towards women. Even when they see men's inhumanity they still think men are more human than women. It's crazy.

kesstrel up until relatively recently an individual woman would not have controlled access to her own body easily, IMHO, as i described above.

I'd say this goes for most cultures in much of human history - but maybe not all.

Her family might have protected her from rape but her future marriage and husband may not have been, or been seen to be, in her own hands.

I think rape etc is perpetrated by men who hate women and the argument now might be that women withold sex ( fuck this is depressing to type!) But is that the real original cause of the anger and hate?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice that is interesting. I think re

"1. The 'women superior' model, where women are divine goddesses of fertility, beauty, virtue, etc on a pedestal."

I've heard this but I need more convincing!

"2. The 'different but equal' model."

I think religions use this, including my own! I don't actually see this as hate or anger, just a version of keeping the best jobs for the most significant (in their own eyes) people.

This applies to different ethnicities too and other categories so not just women, it is sexism but is it misogyny, is it hate and anger?

"3. The 'women inferior' model, where women are dirty, evil, manipulative temptresses, too stupid and inept to be considered for positions of visibility and influence."

I'm not sure 'haters' see women as stupid as a 'reason' to hate. But the rest fits. But is it the primary reason?

Does it explain the sexist or violent behaviour of young boys? Is this learned from dad?

I see all this springing from anger but as reasons for that initial anger.

We have control over the 'means of production' as it were when it comes to babies. That might piss you off if you were a man and thought you should dominate and dictate to the women in your life. Hence the desperate desire for male dominated religion to ban or limit contraception and abortion.

I don't think logic and rationality apply in situations of strong physical urges. I was always bemused by smokers who insisted that non-smokers' desire to be smoke-free were due to a puritanical desire to prevent them from enjoying themselves, rather than an understandable desire to avoid unpleasant second-had smoke.

To a young man in the past, the fact that women kept themselves apart, and that young women were normally guarded and chaperoned by older women, would IMO be enough for them to "see" the situation as being controlled by women themselves. People are very good at not perceiving the reality of a situation when it makes them feel good to do so. And anger projected at someone different to you feels good when you're frustrated.

I'm not sure 'haters' see women as stupid as a 'reason' to hate.

There are a lot of dualistic beliefs of women being 'of the body' and men being 'of the spirit' right from Confucious in the East to Christianity in the West. 'Of the body' to me reads as a bit thick and with poor judgement and 'of the spirit' is about noble, inspired thinking.

It's a sense of women being inferior and disgusting, having periods, bleeding all over the place during birth, being ravenously hungry during pregnancy and thirsty while breastfeeding - seeming more 'animal' biologically driven and less 'human' than men.

Men in every corner of history have oppressed someone, women are the ideal target because they’re generally not as strong. I think they do this out of a need to feel strong and dominant or some other bullshit entitled ego stroking. Ultimately I can’t help but think they’re inherantly weak and scared.

Sorry, in a bit of a Fuck Men mood today

Clarice

I've always seen this as projection. Idealistic types of men who want to be spiritual and pure, or stoical and self-controlled, get angry at being so vulnerable to their sexual desires, and so bad at controlling them, and then they project that self-loathing onto women. So women become the temptresses, and it's their fault these poor men get tempted away from their higher paths.

Also, holding to those 3 models, it is when women deviate from them that the hatred kicks in. The goddess woman who falls from grace by saying "no. I am not in the mood for giving" or the 'equal' woman wants to try her hand at leading and may actually be better than a man, or the 'stupid' woman who gets an education a demonstrates she is far from just a body. That's where the loathing sets in, where women defy these expectations.

He says it stems from unresolved conflicts between men’s intense need for and dependence upon women and their equally intense fear of that dependence—and the underlying reason for our anger is almost totally subconscious

I have been thinking about one stage even below this.

The female human is the selective agent in reproduction (bear with me). It’s a huge investment for a woman to have children and the selection of partner is critical. So we have hidden ovulation and culture has it that women get to choose with their right to select.

Obviously then, males have a certain lack of agency in their reproduction, a woman has to agree (which is not the case in many many other species)

So this lack of agency, dependency on women’s choice to reproduce causes the resentment. And the double bind being that you have to be a decent man for women to choose you, so resorting to overt violence and anger will not be long term successful, so it’s not a great strategy overall. Yet simmering underneath is this low level misogyny and need to put women down.

kesstrel yes I am always suspicious of men who act too pious.

IrianOfW in many countries womem do not control their own fertility, still. I think we have had effective birth control in the west since the 60s. This cannot explain millennium of oppression.

No, I know they don't, but they make the babies. They can in theory make babies with a man other than their husband. There are methods of contraception that have bee around for thousands of years - maybe not reliable or safe of course. But it is the perception that men have of women's ability to control the creation of babies that frightens them.

I think oppression is motivated by something different than hatred/resentment. Oppression is a system that is fundamentally based on the male desire to gain access to and control women's sexuality and fertility. So women are secluded and kept at home, prevented from non-sanctioned expression of their sexuality, and traded like commodities on the marriage market.

Ime there appears to be an awful lot of men that expect women to do something for them and to do as they’re told. Whether that’s have sex to please them, help them at work, clean their house and raise their kids, look pleasing to them, entertain them, emotionally support them etc etc. They don’t seem to think it’s their role to reciprocate these things and that women should just do them because that’s what we do. When we don’t do them they get angry because I guess to them, it’s not fair, we had these roles assigned to us and we’re not doing them. They see they’re doing their assigned role (telling women what to do) so they feel they hold up their end of the bargain. It never seems to occur to them that women might not like being told what to do and that we want our own choices that are not part of a bargain we didn’t sign up for.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice I think that men being ' of the spirit' does not convince me.

But I agree that there is a dualistic thing going on.

Women eat less than men so I'm not sure our hunger or thirst comes into it. I think these are examples of applying a 'logic' after a fact.

Men hate us and are angry with us? Why, could it be we eat or drink too much at certain times? No, personally, I don't think it is. It's deeper. IMHO.

AngelsSins but most adult women below 40 are stronger than kids and old women. Do we go around on mass oppressing them, just because we can? No, we don't.

kesstrel I agree about the temptress bit. But question if it is the root of this. Maybe.

mooncuplanding when until recent human history were women going around looking for the best mate? Animals do that. Humans have controlled their fertile females for millennium. Maybe benignly, maybe not, but control none the less.

This is fascinating and I love all the replies.

I see the reality of all you are saying, all of you, but I am trying yo find the root of the anger. I still feel the original link I posted to the article answers the question for me better.

I must get on with my day Thank you for contributing. It's fascinating. Please continue to do so, if you wish to, and I will get back to this thread later.

kesstrel I completely agree with your post at 11.51 but it is the anger o want to understand personally. Men control women because it is advantageouscto them. I agree. I control my kids to a degree. But I don't hate them.

GoldenWonderwall interesting point.

Will ponder.

I was just listening to a Radio 4 thing on women as artist's muses. It made me think about love poetry written by men, and how much of it is about pleading with a woman to yield sexual favours to them. To his Coy Mistress" etc. In ancient Rome, such poetry tended to be addressed to courtesans, and in our own history, to those few married women who were tacitly allowed to have affairs. So that cultural trope focussed on the few women who had sexual control, rather than the many who didn't. An indication of the preoccupations of the male psyche, perhaps?