What makes men angry with women?

[Italiangreyhound]

What makes men angry with women?

Is this article of any interest? Does it offer any incites?

goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hidden-reason-men-angry-women-over-nothing-chwm/

Thanks in advance if anyone reads it.

Italian just to clarify I don't blame any one religion I just refer to Christianity because of coming from, and being brought up in the uk, so I'm more aware of the influence Christianity has had historically on our society and laws.

I've also been wondering if there was any likelihood of schools teaching more about relationships, or encouraging discussion, on a compulsory basis. Probably wishful thinking with funding for schools and the emphasis passing exams. My dm was a marriage guidance counsellor and a social worker for teen mothers, and often went into schools to advocate for and enable relationship education. She was always coming up against people saying it wasn't the place for schools to teach, and was about busy bodies and do gooders. But if you rely on your family to shape your ideas about personal relationships you often get appalling models.

I want to put something out there, thinking out loud a bit. But something I remember as a kid was a de facto feeling of loving my mum more than my dad but I never said it out loud. I remember some kids in the playground (probably around 8 yeas old) having a conversation agreeing that they all loved their mums more than their dads. I lied and said I loved them both the same. It left me feeling quite wretched and unresolved.

I always had a sense that because I could have babies, I could always be loved and didn't need to feel the same existential uncertainty boys/men feel. (I obviously wouldn't have worded it like that though).

I think males have a sense of stress and fear that they'll be pushed to the fringes and forgotten and they need to work at being loved. They can't just have a baby and become the adored centre of someone's universe like a woman can.

There's this thing of them feeling left out and complaining that women are 'the gatekeepers'.

I wonder if they don't want to become like their dads when they actually preferred their mums and want to be like them. It doesn't seem fair that women get to be the mums and they don't.

OK, I don't need to go out for a few more minutes and I keep being drawn back to this thread and all your interesting comments!

tobee totally agree with your post at 'Thu 30-Aug-18 12:10:33'. And really do see a desperate need for advice on consent, relationships, ending relationships, what constitutes a healthy relationship etc in school. Why do we as a society think it is only necessary to teach people about sex and contraception and not about sex and consent.

Likewise we really need information for kids on porn and the dangers of porn.

This is an urgent need. Is there any campaign group working towards this?

kesstrel to some extent I agree but realistically that is all about courtly love and pursuing a love and maybe that is partly about drama etc. Is media (literature) portraying real life or just telling a story?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice "I always had a sense that because I could have babies, I could always be loved and didn't need to feel the same existential uncertainty boys/men feel. (I obviously wouldn't have worded it like that though)." That's a really interesting idea, but I do wonder if the idea' of the intense love between parent and child we experience now is a universal and historical experience.

"I think males have a sense of stress and fear that they'll be pushed to the fringes and forgotten and they need to work at being loved." Where is the evidence for this?

"I wonder if they don't want to become like their dads when they actually preferred their mums and want to be like them. It doesn't seem fair that women get to be the mums and they don't." This does resonate with the argument in the article I posted, I think!

When you’re very little though, until very recently in human evolution, if you’re not with your mother you’d die. So it would make logical sense to fear loss of your mother more keenly than loss of your father and perhaps therefore to feel you love your mother more than your father. If your mother does the lion’s share of looking after you, you may also have a stronger bond with her, because of acts of love and caring she does for you. With how men have dominated our society, I think if they wanted that relationship with children they would have taken it forcibly for themselves - ensuring we only did the pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding in a way that discouraged any bonding or nuturing.

I don’t know, blaming the mother always feels like a bit of a cop out to me, enabling the view of the little boy who is psychologically wounded as he realises women are fallible through his mother’s clay feet. He never seems to come to the conclusion that women are therefore human beings like men are and instead takes it out on the women that come after for not being perfect. I suppose to the author, I’d want to know what is he doing with his insight to ensure men don’t get angry with women their whole lives because of something their mother said when they were 6 years old.

Rather than thinking of males as being adult men and potential dads I wonder if the truth for the anger lies more in being little boys on some level.

Before I actually became a mum I would have often thought of the relationship with a mum and child and identify with the child. When I met my dh I remember watching 'The Parent Trap' about twin girls and for the first time I really associated with the parent (the mum), rather than the girls.

AngelsSins but most adult women below 40 are stronger than kids and old women. Do we go around on mass oppressing them, just because we can? No, we don't

Because we’re not raised with a sense of entitlement, we don’t have a fandom of other like minded powerful females defending us for hurting kids, we don’t think our “right” to whatever we want is more important than what a child might want, society doesn’t give us an excuse to behave that way.

Although part of me thinks men are just fundamentally fucked up, and lacking in empathy!

GoldenWonderwall Excellent post at 'Thu 30-Aug-18 12:58:54'.

Can I just say I am not blaming mother. At all. I just wonder how much of this is part of childhood. Girls do not blame mum, or hate women so it really is not as simple as mum made a mistake and now I hate all women. But excellent points GoldenWonderwall.

Can I ask another question, for anyone who knows!

If the relationship is more about men's access to sex than a mother son thing, what about homosexuality.

Are exclusively gay men less likely to be sexist or misogynistic or to hate women, or feel angry at women than straight or bi men? Any evidence or studies on this?

And are lesbians or bisexual women, who may wish to sleep with women, any more likely to experience internal misogyny or sexism, or to be hateful towards themselves or other women?

One issue in finding out about this may be whether beliefs of these women are effected by experiences of internalized homophobia or biphobia in women.

I guess my gut feeling is that lesbians are less likely to experience or exhibit internalized sexistism or internalized misogynistic feelings or to hate other women, or feel angry at themselves or other women.

AngelsSins excellent point. But how did it start, at what point did men start using their superior strength against us and at what point did the whole of society either agree to it or predominately turn a blind eye to it?

We gatekeep access to sex and reproduction is why, imo.

We gatekeep sex and reproduction, two things they want most. They can force both out of us with physical strength, so they do. They retain some human altruism and moral conpass so they know doing this is wrong and hate themselves for doing it. They then blame us for making them hate themselves.

MN has been such an insight for me including the bewilder rules of misogyny. Nothing made sense to me until feminism explained it.

Italian Good point, I was just wondering about that myself, in the context of that Manchester Pride compere with his reference to dragging women by their saggy tits. I believe he's gay. So maybe it is something to do with separating from the mother. But there could be other factors as well - perhaps resenting the socially-pushed feeling that they 'ought' to be attracted to women, or just physical distaste? Or a perverse cultural way for the gay community to show they're not emasculated in the way they're so often accused of being?

A statistic that really bothers me is that a shockingly high percentage of domestic violence begins when the woman is pregnant. I've never been able to get my head around it. It seems counter-productive if it could ruin his chances of 'passing on his genes' and results in a miscarriage, premature birth or death of the mother. What is that all about?

With the domestic violence starting in pregnancy, I wonder if part of it is narcissism - he’s about to be displaced as the centre of the universe.

Some men struggle to adapt when a baby is born - suddenly their wife/girlfriend is unable to do everything they are used to and they find the adjustment hard. Witness the threads here with new mothers being badgered for sex and trying to deal with sulking man-babies as well as a newborn.

I've found this thread very interesting

A book called men in love by Nancy Friday in the 80s explored this theme in relation to sex and fantasies. A very very common one was sex with their mother.

It's all a bit pathetic and very depressing really.

I think it's a form of projection - think of all the really awful stereotypes of women and they really apply to men. The more a man cheats, the more he becomes insanely jealous over his partner talking to other men. Men dominate conversations and paint women as over bearing if they speak for a third of the time. Men consistently accuse women of being shallow, but research shows that men overwhelmingly focus on looks over personality in dating, with a particular preference for young, "high status" trophy girlfriends. Women are supposedly emotional and so on and so forth...

They hold us up as a mirror for all the things they like least about themselves, and project all their self-hatred onto us.

So does that go back to early man, or, perhaps I should say, animal instinct to survive and procreate, men choosing their concept of the best woman to achieve that with, Molten?

Just re reading your post, Molten. Women don't seem to do the reverse. Or do they? Not sure.

It's possible, it's the everlasting question of nurture / culture vs nature I suppose. But even the largely absurd evo-psyche argues that men are driven to spread their seed and therefore assume women are equally sexually incontinent as them, despite women being far more driven for the search for a singular mate to form a partnership.

Urges which are entirely absent in women. Newsflash men! We don't have those urges and we are not pretending they are absent to assert control over you.

But we do have urges to have children. Very strong, overwhelming urges for some women.
Then the risks that go along with getting pregnant go out of the window.

Then the risks that go along with getting pregnant go out of the window.

Sure, but that is a very different kind of urge to the male urges to penetrate and ejaculate.

And women are, obviously, out of action for 9 months, to procreate further, if they've successfully conceived. And women have a shorter window to conceive ie after menopause. And, up until recently, conception and birth frequently negatively affected women's health each time. Sometimes resulting in death through haemorrhaging and post partum infection etc. And does still, frequently, in poorer countries than ours.

When/if the urge to procreate arises, the urge to be penetrated and ejaculated into (such poetic language!) can be overwhelming.