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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Green Party statement continuation thread

999 replies

Destinysdaughter · 27/08/2018 11:12

Thread was filling up so I've started this for further discussions

Previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346448-Green-Party-statement

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CesiraAndEnrico · 27/08/2018 13:28

Amalfimamma

Well, not shocked. And all contributes towards explaining who she is, and how she ended up with all her surviving children removed from her care at some point. She either has no contact with reality. Or she evolved into an awful person over her life. Maybe a bit of both.

Either way, I'd rather be brought up by wolves than her.

CarolDanvers · 27/08/2018 13:29

The more I read, the more I feel this situation that on the face of it this whole trans movement is little more than a gang of young, damaged teenagers, with no life experience, making screamy demands for concessions, with no ability to conceive of what those demands actually mean. Nothing new there; the making demands I mean, but somehow they're being listened to and taken seriously and policy is being changed to accommodate them in a way that is unprecedented. Who is behind it? There's no way these little twerps have got here by themselves, surely? I am worried that I am in an echo chamber in that seemingly the people I know and am on social media with get how ludicrous it all is and seem to be in the majority and yet the TRA are still gaining ground and power. I'm just baffled by it. Is this the backlash? Or the beginning of it? I don't trust my own judgment anymore.

carceralfeminist · 27/08/2018 13:33

Amalfimamma

"Feel sorry for me and my family because my mother is disabled and I am upset"

And then TC behaves like this.
Sick.
That's just sick.
Whatever smidgeon of sympathy I had for the pair of them is gone now.
Still smearing the girl who had been raped and tortured - even after the rule of law agreed with her. This brave victim was proven right, despite all the odds being stacked against her and the ordeal she went through...
I am beyond furious.

placemats · 27/08/2018 13:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quoted a deleted post.

VickyEadie · 27/08/2018 13:36

The more I read, the more I feel this situation that on the face of it this whole trans movement is little more than a gang of young, damaged teenagers, with no life experience, making screamy demands for concessions, with no ability to conceive of what those demands actually mean. Nothing new there; the making demands I mean, but somehow they're being listened to and taken seriously and policy is being changed to accommodate them in a way that is unprecedented. Who is behind it? There's no way these little twerps have got here by themselves, surely?

Some of them are as you describe. But I am convinced (as are others here) that there are some older adults behind this whose aims are to destroy safeguarding and gain unfettered access to their victims.

VickyEadie · 27/08/2018 13:38

According to the LBGTIQA+ Greens chair, cross dressing for sexual purposes does not make you trans. Maybe someone should tell Stonewall that their Trans umbrella is wrong.

I love this sort of thing, because it demonstrates very clearly that there is actually no definition of "trans" that can stand up to scrutiny.

placemats · 27/08/2018 13:46

Well, not shocked. And all contributes towards explaining who she is, and how she ended up with all her surviving children removed from her care at some point. She either has no contact with reality. Or she evolved into an awful person over her life. Maybe a bit of both.

Either way, I'd rather be brought up by wolves than her.

Posts like this disgust me. The person who committed this horrific crime was a man, his name was paedophile and rapist David Challenor.

Are women supposed to be taking care of every crime on the planet and, if they don't, demonised? Do you know nothing about abusive relationships?

FlippinFumin · 27/08/2018 13:46

Regarding the safeguarding, I am troubled. I feel that out there, somewhere, are nefarious individuals seeking out young people for whom safeguarding has been a problem. Obvious in Aimee's case, SS interventions etc. I understand LM has no family?

Not sure where it is all going except that for some people if safeguarding disappears they are laughing all the way. I just 'feel' ( I know feelz are not real) something is off. And I feel worried.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 13:47

If DC identified as female while committing these crimes then by all definitions I have read, they were female at those times.

The idea that when it comes to sex (m/f/other) you are what you say you are full stop and nobody has any right to disagree is nonsense obviously. "TWAW!" is what this says. Multiple politicians, political parties, etc agree with this wholeheartedly. Anyone who says "I am a woman" is a woman. And, circularly, that is the only definition of a woman >> "A woman is anyone who says they are one".

Interestingly this does not apply to any other immutable physical charatceristics (although some advocates are working hard especially around age (Stephoknee) and disability (forget the name there is a transwoman who IDs as paraplegic).

I don't even know where I'm going with this, it's just a FACT that while DC was IDing as a girl he WAS female, according to the "rules", so any statement otherwise is nonsense.

Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 27/08/2018 13:49

There's a special team in the DBS which deals solely with transgender people so that they don't have to reveal "deadnames" to employers: everything was done in the strictest confidence. Have today's TRAs decided that even revealing deadnames to the DBS is literal violence and so screw safeguarding, nobody should do it? Unfortunately nothing would surprise me.

IIRC, there were about ten people prosecuted for naming Ched Evans' victim on Twitter; all were convicted of contempt and fined. Hopefully the CPS will be able to prosecute these TRAs as well.

CesiraAndEnrico · 27/08/2018 13:51

A prime example of very vulnerable people who are at risk of suicide, being groomed

Which is a really bad idea, unless people want the number of suicides to go up.

I have had suicidal ideation at least once a day, sometimes once a minute all day, for more than 30 years. I have a handle on it. There is no chance of it coming to pass. (Unless I get a terrible prognosis with just weeks left of increasingly next to no quality of life, in which case, I'll be scuttling to the cheapest version of Dignitas possible. Cos I'll be justified then.)

But if you surrounded me with people who banged on all the time about my incredibly increased risk of suicide. I'd probably be dead within a month.

I really wouldn't do well with encouragement to let the Death Squad in my head run riot.

If people are not careful the much mentioned transgender suicide rate, (particularly amoung the young, because I remember how much stronger and harder to contro, the impulses were back then) could become a self fulfilling prophecy.

BTW, don't anybody panic, cos I know it probably reads as a bit hair raising. But I am at the point where I live with the thoughts the way most people live with an ingrowing toenail. It's there, it's annoying, but I've developed skills to turn down the volume to as low as it can go.

Thankfully there is no cult running wild in my local community desperate to grab my knob and turn it up to 11.

Oh that others were so fortunate.

What we are doing to the young at the moment is nothing short of widespread, damn near obligatory, neglect of adult responsibilities.

PositivelyPERF · 27/08/2018 13:53

According to the LBGTIQA+ Greens chair, cross dressing for sexual purposes does not make you trans.

Don’t worry, the rapist will soon be able to join the alphabet soup+ Greens chair, when he claims to be a woman to be moved to a female jail. They can’t disown him. Here you tossers. He’s yours. You opened the door to let the perverts in, so fucking own it, you cowards.

Wanderabout · 27/08/2018 13:54

Lily Madigan tweeted that DBS checks are transphobic at one point but unfortunately I can't find a screenshot.

Anyone who has one would do well to tweet it about right now.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 13:55

IIRC, there were about ten people prosecuted for naming Ched Evans' victim on Twitter; all were convicted of contempt and fined. Hopefully the CPS will be able to prosecute these TRAs as well.

MRA / TRA >> spot the difference?
None that I can see.
Apart from the fatc that when the latter group do it, the countries political elite give them a round of applause.

TerfsUp · 27/08/2018 13:55

If DC identified as female while committing these crimes then by all definitions I have read, they were female at those times.

I disagree. Under Stonewall's definition, Challoner Senior is a transwoman at all times, not just when he was committing acts of paedophilia.

PositivelyPERF · 27/08/2018 13:56

CesiraAndEnrico I know exactly what you mean. I’ve lived with that from childhood and attempted it when younger. I’ve had to pull myself back when I lost my husband. I just keep saying ‘it will pass. It will pass. I’ve got through it before and I will again’ 💐

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 13:56

Which is what makes it so very appealing to swathes of men who hate women.

Gives you ability to call women cunts / threaten them with rape etc etc and wow you're so brave.
Also you can really upset women by taking their spots / entering their spaces in all sorts of situations, and they can do NOTHING about it.

hahahahahhhaa brilliant eh.

TerfsUp · 27/08/2018 13:57

Don’t worry, the rapist will soon be able to join the alphabet soup+ Greens chair, when he claims to be a woman to be moved to a female jail. They can’t disown him. Here you tossers. He’s yours. You opened the door to let the perverts in, so fucking own it, you cowards.

I am sure that The Guardian will be more than happy to publish a sympathetic article towards Challoner Senior, arguing that he should be placed in a women's prison because of his feelz.

PositivelyPERF · 27/08/2018 13:59

I am sure that The Guardian will be more than happy to publish a sympathetic article towards Challoner Senior, arguing that he should be placed in a women's prison because of his feelz.

Absolutely. While implying that only raped and abused a little girl because of HIS pain. But it’ll be fine putting him in with some of the most vulnerable females, because he’s a woman now. 😒

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 13:59

I would really like some reassurance from the gymastics club / guides / charitities DC was involved in / police etc and teh greens (they have "young greens" and stuff right?) that there has been massive follow up and no more evidence of wrongdoing.

I just don't see it as likely that this guy went from nothing to what he did in one step. That's just not how these things go.

I am really worried that there are other victims. I assume people have looked into this?

Does anyone know how it works.

Wanderabout · 27/08/2018 14:00

And/or post it up here.

carceralfeminist · 27/08/2018 14:03

Cesira Flowers Fuck, that's a lot to deal with. I admire your strength, resilience, and your ability to share this with us. I will be thinking about how wonderful it is that you are with us and how thankful I am for your brilliant posts. Your voice is important.

Genderwitched · 27/08/2018 14:11

Cesira Flowers

Charliethefeminist · 27/08/2018 14:17

Jonathan Bartley still tweeting away merrily. These bloody people.