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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Green Party statement continuation thread

999 replies

Destinysdaughter · 27/08/2018 11:12

Thread was filling up so I've started this for further discussions

Previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346448-Green-Party-statement

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38
FlintyBadman · 27/08/2018 14:21

@Wanderabout

The closest I can get is this on Google search, however, Hope's account has been suspended so I can't access the tweet.

Green Party statement continuation thread
PersistAunt · 27/08/2018 14:25

When teens start into the Tumblr threads about trans, they are soon befriended and welcomed to the glitter family and given more validation than they've ever known. They are the groomed on how to approach their families, and that if they meet any resistance they just have to threaten suicide, because "everybody knows" that's what will happen. The parents then get scared into acquiescence. And this gets reported as 47% etc.

Hugs to Cesira, not diminishing your pain.
.

FlintyBadman · 27/08/2018 14:26

@Wanderabout I think LM might have said it on Facebook

twitter.com/JaxDoes/status/975443436596809728

placemats · 27/08/2018 14:37

It won't happen though with regard to David Challenor and a prison transfer to the women's estate. And he can go on as many hunger strikes as he likes.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 14:38

YY Cesira

And I think it's Samaritans guidance that covers this as well.

A lot of trans orgs even ones that get public funding blithely ignore the Samaritans advice - it's more important to them to get their point across.

There are just so many dodgy things in all this.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 14:43

I have seen a tweet from LM saying that trans rights and women's rights are mutually exclusive, which is contradicted there.

On the one I saw, the person who had shared it did question whether LM knew what "mutually exclusive" means.

Let's not forget that LM was a proto MRA in a previous life, haranguing race for life for not allowing men to run and comparing it to segregation in usa. Also on hearing that 4 women in prison had reported a transwoman inmate for sexual assault, they immediately jumped to the conclusion that the 4 women were lying. So far no change - still an MRA.

So many of the prominent activists in this are dodgy misogynists why the political elite can't see it is beyond me.

PositivelyPERF · 27/08/2018 14:52

It won't happen though with regard to David Challenor and a prison transfer to the women's estate. And he can go on as many hunger strikes as he likes.

Nope. Of course not. Will never happen. 🙄

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4856268/amp/Transgender-rapist-moved-women-jail-segregated.html

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/875515/transgender-inmates-male-jails-until-op-sex-offenders/amp

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/a-rapist-in-a-womens-prison-society-has-lost-the-plot/20310#.W4QCEqTTX7o

CesiraAndEnrico · 27/08/2018 14:59

Are women supposed to be taking care of every crime on the planet and, if they don't, demonised? Do you know nothing about abusive relationships?

I do. By many people's estimation I grew up in the context of one.

I'm not going to pretend that the victimisation people (vaginaed and non-vaginaed); can and do practice within their victimhood - by deficiency, or misdirected malevolence - is suddenly a whole different kettle of fish, and one should avoid anger and reproach towards them.

I'm not going to pretend that a victim victimising you as a child (or former child) as they sacrifice you on the alter of their pain, is any less damaging or rage inducing ..just as long as they have tits and a man hurt them badly first.

David was potentially somebody's victim once. We have no idea how he became what he did. But whatever happened to him, whatever victimisation and abuse he may or may not have been formed by, he is responsible for his own dire failings as an adult. So too is his wife for hers. And her failings right now, stink. Because she is extracting maximum victimhood at the direct expense of a kid who was abused horribly, and now being deemed a fantasist in a semi public setting.

You can be as disgusted as you like. I heard it all before while growing up. It's part of why I chose to bring my son up here, not back home.

Because over here, while very imperfect, there is still a social expectation that the children have to be the centre of the parental/adult universe. And as a former child who came from a context many would deem abusive, I'm good with that.

Cos I had a belly full of the adults getting soothed while they emotionally bruised less powerful people, when England was still my home. And with this much stronger social expectation to meet standards, not excuse yourself, nor use personal painful history as a parental "No Judgment Allowed" card, I have achieved a level of decent enough parenting I don't believe I would have come anywhere like close to had I chosen to bring my boy up back home

So you are welcome to feel what you feel. No skin off my back. We do not sing from the same hymn sheet.

Carrrotsandcauliflower · 27/08/2018 15:13

That guardian article was a very lazy piece of rubbish. No further info compared to the metro.

CesiraAndEnrico · 27/08/2018 15:25

I’ve had to pull myself back when I lost my husband. I just keep saying ‘it will pass. It will pass. I’ve got through it before and I will again

Love, while it might not be apparent from the amount I yammer away on here, I am a much better listener than talker.

And I know how grief can be a curveball of proportions that is hard to anticipate and manage. Especially because it has a fucked up timeline doesn't behave itself and move in a nice straight line away from the pain.

I don't frighten easy when it comes to the issue of suicide ideation, for obvious reasons. So if you ever do need somebody, just to listen, not drown you out with "helpful advice" just @ my name. Any time, any thread, any where. 😘😘

Cismyfatarse1 · 27/08/2018 15:30

There is lots and lots out there on DC including a Flikr account (Baloo the Bear). He seems to have a huge number of views of the account but hardly any followers. I would link but I am wary of breaking rules.

RedToothBrush · 27/08/2018 15:59

I am still reeling from the revelation at the end of the last thread that some of AC's supporters have outed the name of the victim on twitter.

I would have thought that it would count as contempt of court, and I'm very much reminded of the far right and the ongoing case of Tommy Robinson.

Of course its a tactic to intimidate other potential victims. That's the point. A court would take a very dim view of anyone in contempt for this reason.

BUT

The thing with the recent Tommy Robinson case, was it was a win - win for Robinson regardless of whether he won his appeal against contempt (which was on a technicality rather than because he was wrongly convicted). It was about all the publicity the case was going to generate, and the opportunity for the far right to play the victim and to create a fake narrative which too few would check for accuracy.

Given the nature of trans activism which shares the traits of disregard for truth, disregard for victims, seeks as much publicity as possible, pursues reversal narratives, it really would not surprise me to see another contempt trial rise out of the case.

If there are also other charges potentially pending, it also runs the risk of affecting any other future trial. It might create the situation where the argument is used that DC or someone else can not have a fair trial because of the publicity. It smacks of potentially setting this up as a defence. Of course, if this is how a court looks at such a case again, they'll take a very dim view.

This might beg the question of whether there is even darker stuff that people involved closely to the case or to the politics of the case, might be aware of, and might have reason to act in this abhorrent way which has all the mentality of gang / mafia intimidation.

It also has me pondering about the lack of BBC coverage of the case. The Cliff Richard verdict has had huge ramifications for them, which have not yet fully worked through into a review of policy.

If there are potentially other cases connected to this, I suspect the BBC might be extremely cautious about going near it as a result.

None of this is reassuring and it once again, highlights the erosion of how the courts and media both value and uphold the law and the movement to undermine both institutions for nefarious agendas.

CesiraAndEnrico · 27/08/2018 16:03

The Independant

ift.tt/2BQm3Fz

LadyLauraOver · 27/08/2018 16:09

Digressing slightly but have you all seen these? www.dropbox.com/sh/4n362ya99atnuhq/AAAFs1-fP1Xu96liCC4OZmN-a?dl=0

BraveAndStunning · 27/08/2018 16:13

No mention of AC being transgender in that article.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 27/08/2018 16:14

Can't see but if there's a photo it's rather obvious.

RedToothBrush · 27/08/2018 16:15

Are women supposed to be taking care of every crime on the planet and, if they don't, demonised? Do you know nothing about abusive relationships?

No they shouldn't but even abused women retain a certain level of responsibility for their actions for safeguarding reasons. Whether its fair or not is another matter but I would argue it is necessary.

For example when an abused women returns to the home of her abusive partner with her children. The women absolutely should be held responsible on some level for enabling that.

The same works for anyone who might work in a sensitive area who is conditioned not to see X as a threat and exposes vulnerable people to people they shouldn't and breaks safeguarding protocol. That person being someone you trust isn't good enough. The person has to be vetted by others who don't have that same personal connection or via a transparent system.

Failure to recognise or understand the importance of safeguarding structures is an issue across the board. Being someone who also happens to be a victim, isn't sufficient grounds for excusing behavior that goes contrary to protocol.

Those protocols are supposed to be there to protect people in those positions and give them good reason to resist if need be.

How abused individuals who don't follow safeguarding protocols are then subsequently treated then depends, firstly on whether someone is still at risk and the likelihood of a repeat and then on the extent of the harm they themselves had undergone.

The most vulnerable is ALWAYS at the centre and that is almost always minors over adults (though there are even some exceptions to this rule).

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 16:15

Cliff richard BBC is not relevant as this man has been found guilty and sent to prison for 22 years.

There are other reasons they are not reporting this.

RedToothBrush · 27/08/2018 16:17

Cliff richard BBC is not relevant as this man has been found guilty and sent to prison for 22 years.

I don't disagree but the BBC are walking on eggshells atm.

Plus that word: victims.

It got me wondering.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 16:19

How do you mean about the word victims?

Aimee referred to "survivors" in a statement ie more than one, I don't know if that has been picked up on anywhere.

I hope to fuck super careful investiagions have been carried out into all the children he came into contact with - through the greens, gymnastics, scouts, charity work + the (I think it's) 6 children in the family.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 27/08/2018 16:21

The naming on the victim by TRA would seem to be a threat to other victims I'd think?

I suspect that some people know more than they are letting on - as with previous "well thought of" paedophiles and sex offenders, there are rumours and whispers and people turn a blind eye.

I can't believe this is the only victim it just is incredibly unlikely.

It's incredibly worrying.

LangCleg · 27/08/2018 16:24

None of this is reassuring and it once again, highlights the erosion of how the courts and media both value and uphold the law and the movement to undermine both institutions for nefarious agendas.

YY

LadyLauraOver · 27/08/2018 16:33

I've seen the suggestion of the victim's identity. I hope those sharing this are suitably punished but somehow I doubt it.

ZeroFuchsiasGiven · 27/08/2018 16:38

The account that tweeted that appears to be a US one so no idea how easy it would be to get contempt of court proceedings going.

Carrrotsandcauliflower · 27/08/2018 16:41

LadyLauraOver-‘thanks for that- the 4th one- get more info- should be a meme- good one to send around social media.