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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)

272 replies

SwearyG · 26/07/2018 10:20

And it's awful

No mention of sex, no mention of impact on any stakeholders, all leading questions, and horrible clear intention to filter.

This will affect the wonderful space at Hampstead Ponds so I urge you all to complete it. I will be speaking to the Corporation about its clear bias and lack of adherence to guidelines.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Ereshkigal · 31/07/2018 11:38

This is exactly it, AncientLights. You only have to look at any TRA post.

BiologyIsReal · 31/07/2018 11:39

Lord defending his membership of the freemasons today in the Daily Telegraph.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/gender-equality-campaigner-defends-freemason-membership/

Squirm, wriggle, change from within, blah blah creep.

ReappearingWoman · 31/07/2018 12:36

FFS. Now Sophie Walker is wading in on Twitter, hypocritically highlighting Lord's hypocrisy while she herself runs a political party that advocates the belief that women identify into their own oppression & the discrimination women face everyday is nothing to do with their sex. Hypocrite pot, meet hypocrite kettle. I'm sure you'll get along swimmingly, what with both working from within. Hmm

Hygge · 31/07/2018 12:46

"I'm sure you'll get along swimmingly, what with both working from within."

That getting along swimmingly would have to take place in the woman's pool of course, not the men's pool.

SwearyG · 31/07/2018 13:00

Needmoresleep I have written today asking about the weight they're giving different respondents as Edward Lord said on twitter that if people didn't agree that transpeople should be seen as the gender they choose we couldn't be seen to answer the rest of the questions fairly.

I also want to know how they intend the survey to not be brigaded - there is no need to register, no proof of address, no way to stop it being filled in from all over the shop with fake postcodes or qualifications.

It's a pile of shit. We know it, they know it. They won't actually do anything about it apart from "your comments are noted".

OP posts:
miri1985 · 31/07/2018 13:33

Won't be surprised if Lord quits aka is asked to leave soon. The masons like to fly under the radar and I doubt they will like all this negative attention

TransplantsArePlants · 31/07/2018 15:03

Biology

Well that piece shows the up doesn't it?

TimeLady · 01/08/2018 07:02

The Daily Mail has picked up on part of the story

Freemasons break tradition as they allow women to join the brotherhood (but only if they were born male)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6013141/Freemasons-break-tradition-allow-women-join-brotherhood-born-male.html

New guidance issued on 17 July apparently....but they will still have to be known as 'Brother'. Oooooh, the misgenderphobes won't like that. Grin

The regular drip-feeding of these dafter stories in the MSM can only help raise awareness amongst the wider public.

TimeLady · 01/08/2018 07:21

Also covered in The Times today

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/freemasons-to-admit-women-if-they-first-joined-as-men-n6mrqm6zl

Some conventions remain. Formal greetings should begin with the prefix “Brother”, so someone who has transitioned from John to Jane Smith would be “Brother Jane” or “Brother Smith”. Appropriate alternatives to the dress code, which could include a “smart dark skirt and top”, would be allowed.

Should look good with the apron.

R0wantrees · 01/08/2018 07:35

Extract from Daily Mail re female-born trans men:

"The organisation’s gender reassignment guidance - which was issued to the brotherhood on July 17 - also said that a woman who had become a man may become a member.

Women who have not undergone reassignment surgery will still be exempt from Freemason membership, however."

This is interesting & at odds with the postion of TRAs (including Stonewall, Edward Lord etc) when drafting policies for male-born trans women's access to women's services, spaces & organisations.

R0wantrees · 01/08/2018 07:48

Times article linked above:
(extract)
"The United Grand Lodge of England, founded in 1717, has issued guidance to its 200,000 members that “a Freemason who after initiation ceases to be a man does not cease to be a Freemason”.

Its “gender reassignment policy” says that anyone wishing to join must be male but once admitted can remain a member as a woman. Anyone who has become a man can also apply. "

It may be worth putting the Girl Guides in touch with the Freemasons as their policies are significantly different with regards the requirements on both joining and leaving/ not leaving following transition.

The Freemasons seems to have had some very senior expert legal advice:

(extract)
"The Times understands that a senior judge, who is a Freemason, was asked to look into the legal implications of gender reassignment before a possible relaxation of the law. As a single-sex association, lodges are exempt from sexual discrimination legislation on admissions criteria but discrimination against members is a different issue."

@AgnesBadenPowell

Girl Guide recent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3314566-another-girlguiding-update

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3253884-girlguiding-an-update

May 2018 meeting at Speakers House:
OP therealposieparker wrote:
"A woman who is blocked from view, Phillip Bunce who is sometimes dressed as female, Maria Miller MP, Trans woman Bex or Aimee (they look the same to me) and a bloke. They are discussing trans inclusion and the girl guides."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3250175-Girl-Guides-Panel-discussion-at-Speakers-house-woman-male-woman-male-male-male

AgnesBadenPowell · 01/08/2018 08:05

The different way in which the masons and Girlguiding approach existing members who transition is very telling. It's also interesting that GG was pretty adamant that their policy of booting out girls who transition to non binary or transboys while admitting anyone who identifies as a girl, is the only way they could comply with the equality act. I would tentatively suggest that they are spouting bollocks. But if course, it's only girls who miss out with the GG policy, and who cares about them?

I will be sending the masons link to GG.

R0wantrees · 01/08/2018 09:15

Agnes Perhaps these are specific questions for Stephen Whittle?

The obvious discrimination re transmen requiring reassignment surgery to join the Freemasons etc and the contradictions in transgender policies are exactly the sort of thing he has spent so much of his professional life on.

SwearyG · 01/08/2018 09:45

The official, City of London, Hampstead Heath twitter account has delightfully retweeted someone trying to stop feminists from having their voices heard in the consultation. They didn't call us feminists, but I'd get a strike and a deletion if I used the word they did.

Can anyone with a spare few minutes drop the City of London an email expressing their displeasure at this official account retweeting others asking to stop our voices being heard and calling us pretty revolting, sexist names.

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NothingOnTellyAgain · 01/08/2018 09:54

Next tweet:

Men! Do you enjoy wanking in bushes? We could have a brand new, exciting venue in London soon! Fill in this expression of interest form consultation today!!

Wanderabout · 01/08/2018 10:01

If the Freemasons can insist on surgery for females before they accept them as 'transmen'

Why isn't the guides doing the same for adult males before accepting them as female leaders?

R0wantrees · 01/08/2018 10:02

Sarah Ditum comment:

twitter.com/sarahditum/status/1024403918661537792

This is the account that is responsible for the Hampstead Heath swimming ponds.

City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)
SwearyG · 01/08/2018 10:06

Men! Do you enjoy wanking in bushes? We could have a brand new, exciting venue in London soon! Fill in this expression of interest form consultation today!

Grin

May I steal for twitter please?

OP posts:
NothingOnTellyAgain · 01/08/2018 10:13

Of course 😁

Sad thing is of course, this is what will happen.

MsBeaujangles · 01/08/2018 10:16

I am really shocked that Hampstead Heath retweeted a tweet that used the word TER* and gave advice on gaming the consultation.

R0wantrees · 01/08/2018 11:03

link to current thread about Freemason's Diversity and Equality policy with reagards people who are transgender & women:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3323475-Surprise-The-Masons-now-welcome-Transwomen-but-not-women

Needmoresleep · 01/08/2018 11:21

I am a middle aged woman who lives in Central London and likes swimming outdoors. As it happens I normally go to the Tooting Lido - indeed I am a member. Hampstead is just as close, but Tooting is on a bus route.

I don't want to be in a communal changing room with people with male bodies. Tooting has a communal changing room/shower block, with lots of young girls running in and out. Brockwell and the Serpentine also do, as does the Queen Mother Sports Centre in Victoria. .

I am genuinely concerned that the proposed policy, especially if taken as a prescedent, would reduce the number of girls and women accessing this type of facility. Sports facilities, especially those that appeal to girls and women are very limited in Central London. It would be wrong and disproportionate if, for the sake of a few - who can access the mixed pond in Hamstead without problem - a number of others were discouraged. It is worth noting that neighbouring Westminster has the highest rate of childhood obesity in the Country. There is a lot at stake here.

Going back not too many years Brockwell Lido had some major problems with its male changing room to the extent that mothers would not let their preteen sons in there alone during quiet mid-week times. Changing rooms have been reconfiguated and I dont think there is a problem now. But it is a problem that happens, and concerns by users need to be taken on board.

Sorry if that makes me, and many others, TERFs. At what point did we become a country where people are not allowed legitimate views without being insulted.

MangoSplit · 01/08/2018 11:36

I am really shocked that Hampstead Heath retweeted a tweet that used the word TER and gave advice on gaming the consultation*

Me too. I've just contacted City of London (details above) to complain. What's the point of holding the consultation if you're already planning to ignore the responses?

FloralBunting · 01/08/2018 11:41

I believe the correct term for this kind of consultation is 'rubber stamping exercise'.