Another Girlguiding update

[AgnesBadenPowell]

I've been a bit quiet lately. I'm under investigation, which I can't discuss in any detail, although my membership is now at risk. In the meantime, I'm still a leader and Girlguiding has not changed its stance on trans issues. The following is a bit of a stream of consciousness but I'm feeling quite troubled by it and need to let it out! I'd also be interested in what parents of rainbows think.

I took my rainbows on a sleepover this weekend. It was great! It also really bought home to me the risks posed by the trans policy. I feel quite upset and tearful about it.

We had 20 rainbows in a church hall. Three women leaders, including me, also slept in the main hall - at one end, out of the way, with our own sleeping mats and bags etc - but in the same room. The other women leaders slept in an adjoining room (more of a lobby really).

The adults used the gents toilets and the girls used the ladies and disabled facilities. Despite this some girls weren’t too bothered and just changed in the hall! One nosy rainbow followed me into the gents - luckily I was only brushing my teeth and not changing - and of course I shooed her out.

How would a set up like this (which is pretty common) work with a trans child or adult? We could look for new venues with more rooms/options but Girlguiding’s stance is that the trans child and adult should use the facilities of their chosen gender. And if parents aren’t aware of the single gender/mixed sex policy, they aren’t in a position to complain or take their children out.

On a personal note, the two other leaders in the hall are women that I don’t know very well. One of them I’ve only met once before, she’s a brownie leader who came to help so we met our ratios. My sleeping mat was right next to hers as there wasn’t much space. It was fine but I could not have done this with a self identified (ie male at birth) transwoman. I don’t know any woman who would feel safe sleeping right next to a male bodied person they had only met once before. And I should never, ever be expected to do so. For all the make up, dresses, female names, most transwomen do not have bottom surgery and retain their male genitalia. I would never be expected to share sleeping accommodation with a man I don’t know (or even ones I do - I’m not sharing a room with my male colleague on a business trip next week) so why would it be acceptable in Girlguiding, provided the male said he feels female?

It really hit home that it’s only fair and reasonable to expect people of the same sex to share spaces like this. I really don’t want to make trans people feel bad or left out - but my dignity, my girls dignity and privacy, is every bit as important as theirs.

[UpstartCrow]

Thank you for the update. I share your concerns, and I'm disturbed to hear you are under investigation for your stance on safeguarding.

[Melamin]

Thank you. You sound very sensible.

[boatyardblues]

Agnes

[HawkeyeInConfusion]

Thank you for the update.

And sending you . I appreciate you standing up to safeguard your Rainbows and all the girls in Guiding. Thank you.

[BossWitch]

Thanks for the update. Well done for keeping going. My dd is currently 4, and on the list for Rainbows. I was a brownie, guide, young leader and briefly an adult leader. I've always wanted an dds I had to go into guiding but I am so worried about the current trans policy. I genuinely don't know what to do about sending her.

[Datun]

Hi AgnesBadenPowell

This is it, isn't it? The GG policy will allow that.

Girls and women are just collateral damage.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

That's really shit that you are under investigation for (as far as I can tell) raising concerns about GGs safeguarding policy changes.

I really appreciate you fighting so hard for this, and I don't know if it helps, but you know there are loads of us behind you, and you know that you are right to question this.

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Thanks for the flowers. I just needed to vent. Actually going on a residential (we don't do many in Rainbows) really bought it home.

Nothing will change at Girlguiding, of that I am pretty certain. Only a serious incident of real harm will cause a rethink of the policy. Gender critical leaders like me will be weeded out if we speak out (how ironic that one of the new Guides badges launched yesterday is "speaking out"!) or we will just go along with it and hope it doesn't happen in our units.

I'm aware that it's far more likely that I'll have a girl identify as a boy or non binary, which is a separate but equally upsetting dilemma.

[pombear]

Firstly, thank you Agnes on behalf of all those whose children (female girls) who benefit from weekends away, fun stuff, being part of guides because of people like you who make it happen.

Like you say, there's a conflict here between not wanting to make trans people feel left out and the real experience lived by women and girls that highlights every time why doing so (being nice, not making people feel sad) would always essentially challenge the dignity and privacy of females.

[concretesieve]

I'm so sorry to see this. Your integrity about this is outstanding and your treatment by GGHQ is just awful. I've never been a Guide, but you really are someone that should be seen as a real credit to the movement - not treated like this.

[crocsaretoocoolforschool]

One of the guide badges is also mixology ffs so I would imagine the guide badges bear no reflection on what HQ think

I left this week -absolutely sick of the absolute rot HQ are spouting

I won't be the last

[BeUpStanding]

Keep fighting the good fight Agnes. It's so important what you're doing.

[Indierockandroll]

Only a serious incident of real harm will cause a rethink of the policy.

By which point the damage will be done and this really disturbs me.

Thank you for fighting and for volunteering. I have a lot of time for people who give their time to support young people.

[borntobequiet]

Heard about the new badges on the radio and thought of you. Shocking hypocrisy on the part of GG - a “speaking out” badge?
Good luck, take care.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

I'm also a parent of a girl guide Agnes and I really appreciate what you are doing, especially as we see the cost to you in this absurd investigation.

I really hope more guide leaders & parents get to hear what's happening as it's outrageous and you really do need support.

[AgnesBadenPowell]

At dryer sleepover drop off, I heard one parent clearly say to his daughter "do whatever Agnes tell you to" (she can be a bit lively but is a delightful child).

That is a huge responsibility and shows how much parents trust me. Rainbows are only 5-7 years old.

If I did the "let's talk about gender" activities (on the GG website if you're interested) and spouted off the GG stance that gender identity is real, it's possible to be born in the wrong body, that it's possible to change sex - why wouldn't she or any other girl believe me, when I've been put in a position of authority and trusted to keep her safe overnight away from home? It's an absolute abuse of power to push this on young children and their parents.

[Train101]

This is drastic but could you go to the media?
You put your point across amazingly and most people with even half a brain agree with you.
If it became news and was printed it might be the kick up the arse girl guiding needs and even if not it will make more people aware.

[AgnesBadenPowell]

I've been in the Sunday times and there was a follow up open letter. There's been a few other media opportunities but they never aired for one reason or another. I just don't think it's seen as an important issue.

[Train101]

Sorry I don't realise
Which media outlets did you contact?

[AgnesBadenPowell]

The investigation centres around whether I've breached the social media policy and brought GG into disrepute. I deny both allegations and counter that GG has brought itself into disrepute.

However, GG is constrained by the law, or more specifically, the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, which provides guidance in the absence of case law. The EHRC is firmly "TWAW". The bar for single sex exemptions is set impossibly high and no one wants to challenge it. I can see why GG is cautious.

I wish I could do more. I have a job that I travel for a lot, a couple of voluntary things. I'm not a lawyer. And I'd be lying if I said this wasn't taking it's toll on my well-being.

[AgnesBadenPowell]

That's ok. I don't want to say here but there's been a few things that didn't work out, including a major news programme.

Part of the problem is most news programmes need to have both sides represented. If the other side won't participate, the story gets canned.

[Mxyzptlk]

Are leaders really expected to initiate talk about gender?

[Train101]

Ah ok, I was just thinking ITV and BBC could be an option, but it seems you've tried.

I'm so sorry you're going through this

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Yes, there's resources for leaders to have planned and unplanned sessions on gender.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/talking-about-gender-and-gender-identity/

[Floorplan]

It is strange because so often we do see only one side represented eg Paris, munroe with no balance.

One rule for them another for us obviously.

Well done, stay strong