Grace Petrie on London protests

[MillyTheKid]

From the folk singer and political activist's Twitter feed:

Here’s what I want to know. I’m a butch lesbian. How come NO TRANS PEOPLE EVER have:
-tried to convince me I’m trans
-tried to stop me using “lesbian”
-interrogated me about whether I will have sex with trans women
-erased me in literally any possible way

And yet, conversely, transphobic feminists have repeatedly:
-tried to stop me using queer to describe myself
-interrogated me about who I’m willing to have sex with
-told me the answer makes me “not a lesbian”
-erased my voice repeatedly in their claim to speak for lesbians

I’m not exaggerating even a tiny bit when I say that the level of harassment I have had simply for opposing TERFs is incomparably more than all the homophobia I’ve experienced in my life. So - you’ll forgive me if I find the “defending lesbians” rhetoric a bit hard to swallow

Glad she has spoken up

She seems to think she's the world. It may shock her that other people have had different experiences. But after looking at my twitter feed and seeing the many, many threats of violence made towards women in the last day or so, I can only say FUCK OFF.

I think when you have enough success in these fields, you are socially outside the group of people who experience these things, for the most part (never say never). Since it is a recent phenomenon, you will not have experienced it on the way up.

It reminds me of the outright bullying that went on at DS's school. None of the teachers saw it. The teaching assistant who had been there since the year dot did not see it. The other teaching assistant took her DD out for 'different' reasons but was full of reassurance and had not seen anything untoward. A mum who was in nearly every day helping was totally flummoxed as to what the problem was.

Then one day, out of school, the bullies set upon her son and some girls that he was playing with, because he was playing with the DC who was the focus. She was totally shocked at the extent they went to (rape threats) as well as the physical violence and the police were involved. She saw it then.

Well I think that's fair enough if that's her experience. It sounds annoying tbh.

Its like Maria Miller being proud of the unisex toilets in the House of commons. And not understanding why they aren't like having to use unisex toilets in a multi storey car park at 2am.

We've seen the evidence, we know the cotton ceiling exists and who started it etc.

Is it an issue? I don't know, I'm not a lesbian.

Most of my lesbian friends say they've not seen it, but they are my age (40s/50s) and mostly partnered/married so not in the dating pool.

Most of my trans friends don't seem to think that way but then again I don't ask them about their sexuality, why would I? It's their business.

BUT my big bugbear is that we know this attitude exists, we see evidence particularly from young lesbians and yeah it may be extremism but I've yet to see ANYONE from the "other side" condemn it. That's my issue personally.

Tell me these nutters don't speak for you and I'll be a lot happier with your claim to be genuinely interested in engagement and debate. Keep schtum and that tells its own story to me......

More of the 'I'm alright Jack' bullshit that pops up on here most days.

Well, I've never had it so I can't see there is a problem here.

I guess black people who have had the privilege of not being subjected to racist abuse can also tell people that it literally never happens.

Also, I have never been assaulted by a male partner. Ladies, it just doesn't happen, OK. It has never happened to me so I don't see the issue really.

Grace has been keeping on the 'right' side of this for a long time. It makes sense she hasn't yet had hassle. She'll say something that's deemed 'wrong' eventually though - everyone does.

Her experience is that (some) feminists have questioned her identity and taken away her voice. That's really sad. I think we should listen to her and take her seriously.

No one has 'taken away her voice'.

I haven't experienced period poverty. But I have enough imagination to know that it's something other women experience. Ditto (off the top of my head of hideous experiences that happen to women) trafficking, an abusive marriage, and gang rape.

I don't need to whine that those things haven't happened to me. I listen and I validate other women's trauma. I don't dismiss them. It's just NAMALT frankly

And actually, rereading the OP properly, if she's 'willing to have sex with' someone with a penis, she's not a lesbian. And that's why actual lesbians are really pissed off.

Surely by completely dismissing her experience many on here are taking away her voice (or trying to).

Totally fair enough to say that others have different experiences, but accusing her of "whining" and calling her a "dick centered disgrace" are just ways of shutting down the debate.

And omg you have totally just proved her right by claiming she's not a lesbian

I’m quite happy to debate with her.

She is shutting down debate by dismissing the valid and distressing experiences of lesbians. For woke points.

But if she does dick, she is not a lesbian.

I asked her if the had ever said that she did not want to have sex with a lesbian with a penis and she replied "No I have never publicly stated my sexual preferences, and funnily enough all of these voices of trans support and solidarity that have built me up over the years have NEVER ONCE asked me to either. The discussion of it is intrusive at best. I take whoever I want to bed. Cheers."

Surely by completely dismissing her experience many on here are taking away her voice (or trying to)

What experience? She is entitled to her opinion of course. She says it has never happened to her. Big deal. Other people have said it has happened to them. What makes her able to say for certain that there is no such thing as lesbian erasure?

Also, she claims to be woke and inclusive but would she fuck as like go out with or sleep with a fully intact trans woman. No she wouldn't and nor would all the other conveniently coupled up lesbians (to biological females of course) who state that trans women are our sisters. So hypocritical.

The erasure thing can be seen for instance in the outrage over Scarlett Johansson being cast in a 'trans' role and people arguing that it should have gone to a trans actor. Well, the whole irony is that the character is not even fucking trans- it's a butch lesbian woman pretending to be a man. So it in fact requires a woman to play it. Scarlett is a woman. No issue. But butch lesbian which is an identity in itself has now suddenly become transgender. That is surely erasure.

She went on to say "I think you heard people saying “it’s transphobic to say ‘lesbians can’t sleep with trans women because they aren’t women’” - which is true - and conflated that with pressuring an individual to have unwilling sex with another individual - which is wrong"

I honestly and truly thought that lesbians didnt like penis and were very fond of vagina

I think that if actually you like vagina and are not adverse to penis then there is another word that is usually used to describe that sexual preference

Someone used the vegetarian analogy the other day, if you are mainly vegetarian but occasionally eat fish...you are not actually a vegetarian. You are a pescatarian

As my DH yelled at the german 'get your own fucking (swear)words'

Words mean something

Sorry Bertrand, is that a copy & paste of a Twitter interaction? I'm confused..

Yes, Notsolittle-I should have made that clear

*Surely by completely dismissing her experience many on here are taking away her voice (or trying to).

Totally fair enough to say that others have different experiences, but accusing her of "whining" and calling her a "dick centered disgrace" are just ways of shutting down the debate.*

Yeah I agree with this. I’m not saying her experience is or isn’t representative, but is it really so hard to take her account seriously? If she says she’s had more harassment off GC feminists than she’s had homophobia, let’s accept that is the case.

Thanks for clarifying