Grace Petrie on London protests

[MillyTheKid]

From the folk singer and political activist's Twitter feed:

Here’s what I want to know. I’m a butch lesbian. How come NO TRANS PEOPLE EVER have:
-tried to convince me I’m trans
-tried to stop me using “lesbian”
-interrogated me about whether I will have sex with trans women
-erased me in literally any possible way

And yet, conversely, transphobic feminists have repeatedly:
-tried to stop me using queer to describe myself
-interrogated me about who I’m willing to have sex with
-told me the answer makes me “not a lesbian”
-erased my voice repeatedly in their claim to speak for lesbians

I’m not exaggerating even a tiny bit when I say that the level of harassment I have had simply for opposing TERFs is incomparably more than all the homophobia I’ve experienced in my life. So - you’ll forgive me if I find the “defending lesbians” rhetoric a bit hard to swallow

The thing about the women’s sports point is that it only gives pause for thought if you ALREADY know just how vast the gulf is between male and female athletes in almost all sports. Most people think men are on average a bit stronger, but they don’t realise, for example, that some of the world’s top women athletes have had their records broken by non-professional teenage boys. It’s also hard to get this across without it seeming like you’re diminishing the incredible achievements of women in sports.

I think general ignorance about the level of strength difference between men and women is also partly why the unique significance of male on female domestic violence is lost on so many, and the “hey, don’t women do this too?” line so often gets trotted out - sometimes in bad faith, but not always.

The competitive sports issue might be the only one where I believe no compromise is possible.

And people who say "Oh, sport's not important-it doesn't affect me" remember it's not just elite sport we're talking about- we're potentially talking about school sport. In America sport scholarships to college have already been awarded to transwomen.

The competitive sports issue might be the only one where I believe no compromise is possible.

I’ve finally coe to the viewpoint, the realisation- from a good few years journey from complete trans supporter that if you compromise you will always end up back at TWAW, give an inch and they will demand the whole female experience. It’s inevitable.

Hmm last time I was on here the word LGBTQIA was talking about 'collaboration'. I can see that went well. I have nothing say that hasn't already been said far more eloquently and you seem to have left the thread anyway. But I said I would come back to you so here I am.

I can see that you're personally invested in this because your friend was beaten up and I can understand that you want to protect her. But this bit really pissed me off:

That's an easy way to wash your hands of it, but you'll never resolve this if you do not address the needs and rights of the transgender community.
Admittedly you do go on to say I'm not saying it's all up to women. I'm saying it's up to anyone who is fighting for equality.

Your friend was a victim of male violence. It's not that women don't want to resolve it - it's that we can't. It can only be fixed if males - as a group - take responsibility and do something about it. In the meantime, we try to keep ourselves safe and that means insisting on a small number of spaces were male born people are excluded. And keeping separate crime statistics, otherwise the next generation won't even be able to name the problem.

I am sorry you friend is caught up in that and would support any campaign for a third space - like many posters on here.

And now I'm out all day again - so back to sport.

Sorry - random 'the word' in that first line. If you mentally delete it, the ret should make sense.

the rest.
I need coffee.

" And keeping separate crime statistics, otherwise the next generation won't even be able to name the problem"
This is so crucial. And whenever we try and talk about this, the conversation gets steered back to loos.

I’ve finally coe to the viewpoint, the realisation- from a good few years journey from complete trans supporter that if you compromise you will always end up back at TWAW, give an inch and they will demand the whole female experience. It’s inevitable.

I get that, but I also think: trans people are here and they’re not going anywhere. There HAS to be some give and take in the end, because this simply isn’t a situation where one side can possibly “win” in the end.

In practical terms I think recording accurate crime stats is now quite hard to do, especially if someone’s official documents all state they are the opposite sex to the one they were born. Okay, in the recent rape cases by women the perpetrators’ birth sex is obvious because they used their penises; but in other types of violent crime things won’t always be so clear.

I agree that there has to be give and take. The problem is that in order for there to be give and take there has to be discussion. And while #nodebate is a thing.......

The give and take is easy and will come from completely separating ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ in legal terms.

In practical terms I think recording accurate crime stats is now quite hard to do, especially if someone’s official documents all state they are the opposite sex to the one they were born. Okay, in the recent rape cases by women the perpetrators’ birth sex is obvious because they used their penises; but in other types of violent crime things won’t always be so clear.

Your comment is a good example of why the GRA is harmful and no longer fit for purpose as it is being abused. Complete seperation of sex and gender issues/requirements/laws is needed.

Yes. 2 categories should be recorded: sex (male, female, intersex) and gender (whatever - what was the latest count?).

Going back to sports; the thing that really gets me is that section 19 of the GRA pretty comprehensively says that transsexuals do not get treated as their preferred gender.

But clearly that’s not enforced. It really doesn’t matter if the laws are there but institutions decide TWAW and fuck women over