Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Grace Petrie on London protests

315 replies

MillyTheKid · 09/07/2018 18:10

From the folk singer and political activist's Twitter feed:

Here’s what I want to know. I’m a butch lesbian. How come NO TRANS PEOPLE EVER have:
-tried to convince me I’m trans
-tried to stop me using “lesbian”
-interrogated me about whether I will have sex with trans women
-erased me in literally any possible way

And yet, conversely, transphobic feminists have repeatedly:
-tried to stop me using queer to describe myself
-interrogated me about who I’m willing to have sex with
-told me the answer makes me “not a lesbian”
-erased my voice repeatedly in their claim to speak for lesbians

I’m not exaggerating even a tiny bit when I say that the level of harassment I have had simply for opposing TERFs is incomparably more than all the homophobia I’ve experienced in my life. So - you’ll forgive me if I find the “defending lesbians” rhetoric a bit hard to swallow

OP posts:
BettyDuMonde · 10/07/2018 15:03

I stand by my criticism of Petrie’s music. She’s a musician in the public eye who came to my attention purely due to her comments on the lesbian erasure issue.

If I’d criticised her looks or some such, that would be well out of order, but art (music, visual art, drama) exists in a sphere where criticism is the other side of the same coin.

I posted a far better contemporary female singer songwriter purely because this thread had been flagged up on twitter. If someone wants to drive traffic over here, then I will happily show that traffic an alternative.

Maybe 7 years of arts education makes me view art criticism differently to most?

speakingwoman · 10/07/2018 15:04

I did not know you were a lesbian daimbars.

(sorry, nothing to add!)

LeiaTheSlaya · 10/07/2018 15:08

I've even been called a violent rape apologist. Simply because I'm not gender critical.

Nope. It was because you said a women can avoid rape by just saying no. You were posting absolutely vile MRA Tropes all over a thread where you also ignored a poster telling you of her experiences of the sexual assault/harassment Gracie Petrie says doesn't happen.

So no, you not being gender critical, would be a great big 'meh' on here if you weren't posting in FWR your rape apologist BS. You clearly indicated you have no fucking clue what rape culture is, and that you equate rape culture with accusing people of actual rape. Which just highlights your inability to even understand what you were talking about.

But do carry on with that faux innocence Daim, it's really convincing.

LeiaTheSlaya · 10/07/2018 15:11

The words some people use on here to converse with those who are not gender critical are undeniably unpleasant, and everyone's ability to process and disregard those types of insults varies depending on individual circumstances and personal mental health.

If reading posts on here is having such a devastating impact on you and your mental health, I have to wonder WTF you are doing here. If 'words on a screen' erase you, you need to get some help with that. Cos it's feck all to do with anyone else.

53rdWay · 10/07/2018 15:22

Is there a special word or term for lesbians who don't like cock?

And what was your answer to that, again? “Rhymes with smurf” if I recall correctly?

daimbars · 10/07/2018 15:24

It was because you said a women can avoid rape by just saying no

I did not say that at all. Rape is such a dangerous and triggering word to use when accusing people of anything. Whether it's trans people or other posters on this board. Nobody has any idea what other posters may have been through - to be accused of normalising and justifying rape is disgusting.

You people make this shit up over and over again. Is it any wonder liberal feminists run a mile from here.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 10/07/2018 15:25

Hang on...let me just check...yup 53rdWay - yes it was!

Grace Petrie on London protests
SlothSlothSloth · 10/07/2018 15:25

Maybe 7 years of arts education makes me view art criticism differently to most?

Hmm
SlothSlothSloth · 10/07/2018 15:28

Leia as you’re Talking so sneeringly about how “words on a screen” can’t possibly “erase” someone or their identity, do you also think it’s equally worthy of derision when GC feminists, including on this board, complain about women being erased by TRAs?

LGBTQIA · 10/07/2018 15:33

If reading posts on here is having such a devastating impact on you and your mental health, I have to wonder WTF you are doing here. If 'words on a screen' erase you, you need to get some help with that. Cos it's feck all to do with anyone else.

I'm here because I choose to be. I have not been erased; more than one person erased me in their own minds, which is sad but not something I have any control over, therefore it makes no real odds to me.

I am getting help for, among other things, PTSD, anxiety and depression. With that said, I still have as much right to be here as anyone else.

Melamin · 10/07/2018 15:34

We are not talking about 'words on screens' - women are being erased by changes in guidelines, and changes in law that are happening with little knowledge and no consent, at the behest of well funded lobbying groups. It is only trans activists who get in a strop about words on screens.

LeiaTheSlaya · 10/07/2018 15:35

We're talking about fully grown women with minds of their own who have the capacity and mental ability to refuse to sleep with someone they are not attracted to.

^^ Here's your words Daim. I'll let others decide how much 'shit' we're making up.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/07/2018 15:35

You people make this shit up over and over again

I will put money on someone having a screenshot of it

For what its worth i think you mispoke...but then you kept doing it even when people pointed out the 'issue' with it

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/07/2018 15:36

Oh shit

What a crosspost...

LeiaTheSlaya · 10/07/2018 15:36

women are being erased by changes in guidelines, and changes in law that are happening with little knowledge and no consent, at the behest of well funded lobbying groups. It is only trans activists who get in a strop about words on screens.

Yy to this. Nuff said.

LeiaTheSlaya · 10/07/2018 15:37

GrinRufus

SlothSlothSloth · 10/07/2018 15:43

It is only trans activists who get in a strop about words on screens.

This is demonstrably untrue. For a start, the leaflet handed out at Pride dedicated much of its space to screenshots of tweets and tumblr posts.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/07/2018 15:43

It took me so long leia Grin

Too slow...too,too slow Sad

Datun · 10/07/2018 15:55

Except I haven't done that. The closest I have come is saying that someone isn't less of a lesbian for having sex with a non-transitioned woman.

Non transitioned woman - aka man with a penis who identifies as a woman.

This is where the transfer ideology is leading everyone.

In an effort to be inclusive, people, including lesbians, are unable to now comprehensively define the word lesbian.

Of course it's going to cause ructions.

If you are in a position where you can call men, women, and it doesn't affect your life, you might well go ahead and do it. Not even necessarily because you believe it, but because why not?

If you're in a position where you can't, you won't.

As changing the meaning of man, woman, boy, girl, lesbian, homosexual, mother, father, etc, has an affect on a great number of people, there are few people who don't have skin in the game.

Women are not pushing this. Women are not benefiting from this.

Do not expect women to comply. (Some, most, all or a few.)

Furthermore, yes of course words on a screen can be hurtful. But on mumsnet, we do not threaten to rape people, we don't dox them and personal attacks are deleted.

Robust rebuttal, with opinions, is not the same as bomb threats and beatings.

And women (and lesbians) are being erased. As evidenced by these very threads. No one can define the word woman any more!

It's the foundation of the gender critical objection.

Ereshkigal · 10/07/2018 16:00

Tweet showing how little Petrie cares about this. She's all right, so it's not an issue:

twitter.com/FeministRoar/status/1016661965069062144?s=20

SlothSlothSloth · 10/07/2018 16:03

And women (and lesbians) are being erased. As evidenced by these very threads. No one can define the word woman any more!

I agree that concepts such as woman, lesbian and other terms that were once clear have now been made very fuzzy and it’s maddening. It’s probably my main complaint about mainstream trans ideology, really - that it destabilises language and empties words of their meaning.

I was just objecting to that particular poster, Leia, having such a horrible and dismissive attitude about “words on a screen”. It’s like a parent telling their kid not to worry about getting bullied because “sticks and stones” etc.

If we acknowledge “words on a screen” can have a real impact, let’s acknowledge that is true for both sides.

Magpiesarehuge · 10/07/2018 16:05

do you also think it’s equally worthy of derision when GC feminists, including on this board, complain about women being erased by TRAs?

Woman was erased when Cancer Research chsnged their usual advertising to “people with cervix’s. A young very possibly WOC was erased from her college team to make way for 50plus ex forces vet who had already got their chance first time round as a man. The school girls in Connecticut losing out in the state High School Championships to 2 transgirls (males). The woman who Lily Madigan prevented from getting a place? The women who lost out to TW on the Jo Cox scheme?

Grace Petrie on London protests
Grace Petrie on London protests
Datun · 10/07/2018 16:07

SlothSlothSloth

People dismiss things like 'words on the screen' precisely because of the mangling of language.

Disagreement becomes abuse, objection becomes literal violence.

The abuse is fairly one-sided. Gender critical feminists are relentless, but they're not bastards.

It gets very old, very quickly, being told that your objections, i.e. words on the screen, are responsible for inciting genocide.

I don't blame people for being frustrated.

I agree, we sometimes post in haste because of it though.

Datun · 10/07/2018 16:09

It gets very old, very quickly, being told that your objections, i.e. words on the screen, are responsible for inciting genocide.

I'm not suggesting anyone here has actually said that. But it is something that gets said about the gender critical viewpoint. Believe it or not.