Grace Petrie on London protests

[MillyTheKid]

From the folk singer and political activist's Twitter feed:

Here’s what I want to know. I’m a butch lesbian. How come NO TRANS PEOPLE EVER have:
-tried to convince me I’m trans
-tried to stop me using “lesbian”
-interrogated me about whether I will have sex with trans women
-erased me in literally any possible way

And yet, conversely, transphobic feminists have repeatedly:
-tried to stop me using queer to describe myself
-interrogated me about who I’m willing to have sex with
-told me the answer makes me “not a lesbian”
-erased my voice repeatedly in their claim to speak for lesbians

I’m not exaggerating even a tiny bit when I say that the level of harassment I have had simply for opposing TERFs is incomparably more than all the homophobia I’ve experienced in my life. So - you’ll forgive me if I find the “defending lesbians” rhetoric a bit hard to swallow

No, I can still see it.

*I can still see glinner's tweet.

You lesbian ladies just need to accept that you havent had a real 'lesbian' sexual experience until you have had a lady penis - highly recommend it....but if you choose not too accept ladypenis well you are just transphobic cotton knicker wearing witches .....

Thanks ToetoToe, I see it now!

Understand if this is too off-topic, but does anyone know how Graham Linehan came to be so involved? It’s very unusual to see a man this invested in GC debates, and when they are, they are usually on the other side, like Owen Jones...

It's certainly refreshing, Sloth. I think he is one of the genuinely rare species that respects and listens to women.

He's been attacked in the past for being 'transphobic' because of a particular episode of the IT Crowd - so it's very possible he was "drawn into" the argument because of that.

I have a good hit rate of finding men being gender critical when I discuss this stuff with them. That includes men who would never in a million years refer to themselves as gender critical and tend to pull a face when they hear the word "feminist".

But then I don't move completely within lefty dudebro woke circles.

He's been attacked in the past for being 'transphobic' because of a particular episode of the IT Crowd - so it's very possible he was "drawn into" the argument because of that

Ah, didn’t know that - I’ll look it up. I have read that he is friends in real life with (I think?) Rebecca Reilly Cooper or another high-profile GC feminist, so perhaps that has something to do with it too.

Yes, it is so refreshing to see a man take a different stance! Even though I don’t agree with all his tweets. Normally when you see a male face in a Twitter thread about GC issues you just KNOW the tweet is going to be some inane nonsense about TERFs, and it almost always is.

Did you not read the rest of my post, lass? The part where I said

I know you personally are not a GC feminist

And you happily joined in

I criticised her because of what I consider to be her extremist, half- baked left wing politics. I said I had no interest in the trans/ lesbian issues. I am very happy to criticise any one at any time who holds her political views.

Oh and Sloth did you bother reading any of my later posts ?

I stand by everything I say about her politics and talent and what I said about the fact she has every right to talk about her experiences of being bullied and to be believed.

Thank you nauticant

Could have written Grace Petrie's quote myself.

That is identical to my experience of trans people and transphobic feminists.

Glad she has spoken up, lesbians like us need to be heard.

If you choose to be a public figure and take a stance on a controversial issue, you should expect people to disagree publicly and this isn't bullying. Us making a thread here isn't bullying, we're entitled to disagree.

When disagreement escalates into an orchestrated pile-on or personal attacks, that's not OK. The people criticising Petrie's music were out of line, because that's a personal attack insofar as it's not relevant to her criticism of #gettheLout. If I'd instructed all two (or however many there are these days) of my twitter followers to @-mention Petrie, that wouldn't be OK either.

Why do we ask lesbians how they define lesbian? Because we come from a position where words have meanings and those meanings matter. It's Debating 101 to define terms clearly from the start.

had my sexuality and gender erased

Really? Did you really? How did mere words on a screen manage to do that?

Who is Grace Petrie?

TheGoddessFrigg I can't speak for Grace but have been called bisexual and accused of being a man on here more times than I care to remember. I've even been called a violent rape apologist. Simply because I'm not gender critical.

Anyone with enough patience can advance search other users posts - at least the ones that havent been deleted.

Really? Did you really? How did mere words on a screen manage to do that?

'Mere words on a screen', as though the communication we use via the internet can't be harmful, powerful and identity-destroying when it becomes persistent?

Like daimbars, I was also called a man, made to feel I am a rape apologist, and called misogynistic even after I reasonably pointed out I am not any of those things.

The words some people use on here to converse with those who are not gender critical are undeniably unpleasant, and everyone's ability to process and disregard those types of insults varies depending on individual circumstances and personal mental health.

called a fuckwit, told I wasn't a feminist...simply for disagreeing with people who appear to be fairly well established on here.

Yep, par for the course on MN FWR!

Gender critical shouldn't even be a thing. Who isn't critical of a list of shitty stereotypes or those that endorse them?

FWR is an extremely hostile environment for liberal feminists.

Most who come on here are scared off within hours so it turns into an echo chamber of the dominant gender critical.

I think this is why posters on Mumsnet have been surprised when people have responded with horror and disgust to the Pride protest - I think posters on Mumsnet think transphobia is the norm.

Do women think lesbianism includes penises? I can't think anyone with a dictionary would think that. It's the absolute basic comprehension surely,.

The homophobia in insisting lesbian space and intimidate partners should include males is grotesque,

Its extremely hostile to repeatedly castigate lesbians for being same sex attracted.
To keep doing it then complain you are being called out for it is breathtakingly entitled.

Do women think lesbianism includes penises?

I have been asked this over and over again on Mumsnet.

I've responded to say I'm a female married to another female and it's nothing to do with me.

Some examples below:

Can some lesbians have a penis?

So as a lesbian, would you have sex with a penis?

Is there a special word or term for lesbians who don't like cock?

What is your definition of lesbian?

Its extremely hostile to repeatedly castigate lesbians for being same sex attracted.

Nice straw man there seeing as I'm a lesbian who is same sex attracted!

Its extremely hostile to repeatedly castigate lesbians for being same sex attracted.
To keep doing it then complain you are being called out for it is breathtakingly entitled.

Except I haven't done that. The closest I have come is saying that someone isn't less of a lesbian for having sex with a non-transitioned woman. And those two things are absolutely not the same.