Grace Petrie on London protests

[MillyTheKid]

From the folk singer and political activist's Twitter feed:

Here’s what I want to know. I’m a butch lesbian. How come NO TRANS PEOPLE EVER have:
-tried to convince me I’m trans
-tried to stop me using “lesbian”
-interrogated me about whether I will have sex with trans women
-erased me in literally any possible way

And yet, conversely, transphobic feminists have repeatedly:
-tried to stop me using queer to describe myself
-interrogated me about who I’m willing to have sex with
-told me the answer makes me “not a lesbian”
-erased my voice repeatedly in their claim to speak for lesbians

I’m not exaggerating even a tiny bit when I say that the level of harassment I have had simply for opposing TERFs is incomparably more than all the homophobia I’ve experienced in my life. So - you’ll forgive me if I find the “defending lesbians” rhetoric a bit hard to swallow

I have seen her live several times and find her a very engaging warm performer.

I do agree that tw cannot be lesbians but as a mostly straight woman I can understand a lesbian getting annoyed when she is told she is being homophobic.

Saying you don't like her nusic is just irrelevant.

Saying you don't like her music is just irrelevant

What is irrelevant about it? What an odd thing to say. I'm not interested in the trans issues and I'm bored of both sides but she puts herself forward as a musician . From what I've heard on YouTube she is dull, unoriginal and not very talented.

It isn't just rhat I don't like her politics - I don't- but there are other political artists whose politics I disagree with but whom I can still appreciate as talented artists- the Scottish Nationalist singer songwriter Dougie McLean for example or Billy Bragg for that matter

BOO

I agree

I dont think they are lesbians at all, but the whole situation must be an incredible headfuck if you really believe they are and want to be inclusive

Grace Petrie has long been banging the "I'm a lesbian and it hasn't happened to me therefore it happens to no other lesbians, either" drum.

She doesn't appear to realise that what she's doing is textbook, classic, rape-apologism: deny, minimise, disbelieve. Her behaviour is disgraceful.

I did really like her music, and I've seen her live a couple of times, so I was so disappointed when she started doing this rape-culture-denial nonsense on twitter a while back. I haven't been able to listen to her music since.

(And yes, if she says she's a lesbian, of course she has said what her sexual preferences are - although I would not say preference, I'd say orientation.)

Actually the leaflets are very eye opening to those not deeply involved in sole Pomo identity politics. My Facebook time,one has been ab absolute revelation

In what way?

Lots and lots of how awful the Tories are and I just think , yes well they might be but things would be a whole lot worse if people like her were in charge.

Yip yip yip. This whole identy politics bs being played out and promoted, the sanctimonious bullying eedjits controlling the likes of student politics/student unions etc has made me very worried about the caliber of folk who will be going on to be our future politicians and running the country, creating our future policies and laws. After Labour’s treatment if women, the whole Madigan thing, JC saying TWAW on telly and expecting every woman to just fall in line or they are no doubt a nasty bigot - well I no longer trust or believe in Labour. The icing on the cake is OJ.

Criticism of her music or anything not directly related to the debate in question is irrelevant, cheap and nasty. And if I believed in deletion should probably be deleted.

Who people choose to take to bed is also completely irrelevant and an entirely private matter. Until it it is made public by calling some people bigots for rejecting particular body types as sexual partners.

I've tweeted Ms Petrie with evidence that it does happen. YY to PP saying that attacks on her music are irrelevant.

I like her music.
That's why I was disappointed to see her so public about views that are so different from mine, about whether male humans are lesbians.

I really hope there aren't straight women going about telling lesbians they're not lesbians.
There's enough lesbianity police as it is.

Most of the lesbians I've met who have this view in public would never actually consider sleeping with a male in reality.

It's just a shame for young lesbians they might influence.

Petrie's raison d'etre for thinking anyone should care tuppence about her opinion on anything is that she promotes herself as a political singer songwriter. There is nothing cheap or nasty about saying she isn't very good.

She uses her half- baked, extreme left wing views to prop up her very limited ability as a musician. If she puts herself in the public domain on that basis she is open to criticism the same as any other performer.

This whole identy politics bs being played out and promoted, the sanctimonious bullying eedjits controlling the likes of student politics/student unions etc has made me very worried about the caliber of folk who will be going on to be our future politicians and running the country, creating our future policies and laws

This exactly.

I rather think the people making the laws will continue to be old Etonians with a first in ppe from oxbridge but this coercive shite is emblematic of the fact that actual grown ups aren't going to vote for the looney fringe alternative

I mean... when I was at uni I protested the invasion of Iraq. Kids now are protesting cheese festivals and women meeting up to talk about law changes.

Magpies - thank you for being able to read my ipad nonsense!

I meant that quite a few people who I didn't expect to agree came out and said that of course lesbians don't have sex with people with penises.

I have seen a fair amount of sanctimonious bullying elsewhere though

She's drawn attention to this thread on her twitter.

Grace, I stand by what I wrote above. I would say it to your face, too. Just because you personally have not experienced something does not mean it's OK, ever, to deny that other women have. You are promoting rape apologism and I am so disappointed in you.

The most gutting thing on the twitter thread about us is Robin Ince's response. It seems he's friends with Petrie, but come on!! Robin Ince!! That has floored me. He should have a little bit of a grasp of biology. It's going to take a lot to shake that off.

At least Graham Linehan of Black Books and the IT Crowd fame (with nearly 700k followers) has come out as one of us on the same thread. If you're on Twitter it would be worth supporting him as so far he's just been told to fuck off,

love this:

"Its like Maria Miller being proud of the unisex toilets in the House of commons. And not understanding why they aren't like having to use unisex toilets in a multi storey car park at 2am"

For those on this thread who feel that Grace is dismissing the experience of other lesbians - why is there no concern about the negative experiences she has experienced through the actions of gender critical feminists? Are you not dismissing her experience while accusing her of doing exactly the same thing?

Lgb etc did you read my post? Plenty concern there.

Are you not dismissing her experience while accusing her of doing exactly the same thing?

No, LGBTQIA, we aren't. We aren't insisting that she must have experienced the rapey shit many other women have experienced. We are just despairing and angry and disappointed that she is denying that it happens to other women. She has a long track record of telling other women outright that the experiences they've described simply haven't happened. She explicitly and openly disbelieves women's experiences of rape culture and abuse.

I sometimes wonder if it's an autistic thing but I feel I must write in invisible ink sometimes.

'I really hope there aren't straight women going about telling lesbians they're not lesbians.
There's enough lesbianity police as it is.'

Oh, Robin Ince. He's standing up for his friend while clearly not understanding at all. Robin - you are keen on evidence-based argument, no? Why not try some on this issue, eh? Or does evidence submitted by women your friend doesn't like not count, somehow?

But your loo at home is unisex, you don’t police who uses it depending on their genitals or gender - do you? So why do you suddenly get shirty and pearl clutchy about being the only woman in a unisex loo with a group of squiify men? Man up!

I dunno about you, Magpies, but I don't generally have a parade of strangers using my loo at home. I don't generally allow people in my home if I am unsure whether they are a threat to me or not.

This one?

I really hope there aren't straight women going about telling lesbians they're not lesbians.
There's enough lesbianity police as it is.

I did, yes. However Grace has specifically said that she has received abuse and harassment from gender critical feminists - so there's no question that this is happening, if we're to follow the vital moral code that every abuse victim should be believed. Your 'hope' that it isn't true reads like a dismissal of her experience rather than an acceptance that it has happened.

A lesbian is telling us the abuse she has received at the hands of gender critical feminists. Instead of victim blaming, dissecting her words, and holding her up as an example of someone who should be acknowledging other women's experiences, perhaps it's important to address her abuse as well?