A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

@Baroquehavoc

And women gathering to speak is an issue?

Absolutely not - but we don't think that people are gathering for civil debate here. As we've said elsewhere, when the fundamental terms of the debate are contested the only thing we can really do is to put civil debate at the heart of our moderation.

What's stopping people with the opposing view from stating their perspective? Nobody but the moderators has the ability to prevent them from doing so. Being disagreed with and being prevented from speaking are not the same thing.

Definition of 'inflammatory ': especially of speech or writing) arousing or intended to arouse angry or violent feelings.

That's not what this is. We don't want to arouse anger or violence. It's a form of non violent resistance.

It's clearly inflammatory because it makes certain people unhappy for women to state (repeatedly, no less!!) what a woman actually is.
Surely we can say it once, and never say it again? Come on, people, saying something that is being disputed by the reality-challenged is clearly just designed to hurt the reality-challenged. It can't possibly be because you're tremendously concerned that those facts are being distorted by egregious liars!!

I'm not entirely true what's different about us stating biological reality repeatedly and activists continually repeating the mantra "trans women are women".

I find it odd that repetition of facts is subordinate to assertion of feelings.

@KateMumsnet. I hope you know that I have always been a great supporter of MNHQ and all your attempts to steer a course through increasingly choppy waters but I cannot agree with you on this.

Incels, MRAs, TRAs and handmaids will be cheering you all over the twattersphere now. Is this really what you want?

seems likely to make Mumsnet feel hostile by most trans people, regardless of their ideology

But Kate - this kind of moderating is also inflammatory, surely you can see that? And from where I am sitting, it seems likely to make Mumsnet feel hostile by most women, regardless of their ideology.

I do not intend this to be rude. I intend this to point out the lack of equity. Why would a site for mothers think it's not ok to be a hostile environment for many trans people but be perfectly fine to be a hostile environment for many women?

You can't have it both ways, sorry.

An opposing view of biology Kate?

when the fundamental terms of the debate are contested

Wow. Just wow.

I genuinely didn't realise that woman and female were contested terms.

I didn't realise that biological fact was in fact a matter of debate.

WTF MNHQ?

Is rape imflammatory?
Is Childbirth imflammatory
Are periods imflammatory?
Are vaginas imflammatory?
Is FMG imflammatory?
Are mastectomies imflammatory?
Is breastfeeding imflammatory?

Because these things happen to HUMAN FEMALES AKA WOMEN AND GIRLS and not to human males. Ever.

What will be be prevented from speaking about next I wonder.

This has actually made me cry and I don't cry easily.

I honestly wish there was something I could do to make this less painful for you, and that your feelings were considered to have equal weight to those of others. I don't have the power to make that happen though, so all I can do is offer hugs and the knowledge that you're not alone in feeling that way.

The purpose of the thread seems to us to be to gather posters together to repeat the same point over and over again.

This has never been a problem in any other MN thread. I have gathered with likeminded MNers to coo over the same fecking pairs of sandals or bags on S&B or to commiserate about lack of sleep when DC are small, or to recommend ways to encourage autistic children to eat. No one has nipped onto the thread to say: 'Enough now, women. Stop talking. You keep repeating yourselves.' @MNHQ Why is this a problem here?

Kate, you keep saying debate.

The thread title is "A woman is an adult female human", that's not a debate is it? That's a fact.

This is feminist chat, does everything have to be debated?

I'm a long term lurker, but this has made me so uncomfortable, I am starting to speak out.

Why do you think that multiple women have felt the need to come on and state biological reality? It's not an insult or slight, but it is being treated as such.

Kate, if you could have a chat with your younger self and describe what's happening what do you think she'd say? Seriously, rewind 5 years and imagine a thread on Mumsnet being heavily moderated because women are posting biological definitions of women.

Some points are important enough to need stating over and over again, especially when a government minister has just stated something to the contrary in defiance of all science or logic.

EXACTLY. The minister in charge of the consultation made an anti-science, ideological comment on national radio this morning, possibly prejudicing the whole thing.

This thread was started in response to that.

It's very difficult to see MNHQ's actions this morning as neutral referees given this context.

Women are adult human females.

The only way to become a woman is to be born a girl, with XX chromosomes & a vulva, and to grow up.

Womanhood is not something that can be earned, or awarded, or gatekept. It's not a club, an achievement or a badge of honour. It just is.

Not sure what is uncivil about saying that a woman is an adult human female. It's extremely uncivil for people to come here and tell me that the material fact of my being female is not true and is trivial. It was a statement of unity and coming together around womanhood. There are lots of debate threads. I wanted to feel a bond with my fellow women, that we are together and supporting each other. What's wrong with that? I don't WANT people to come and derail. There's so much of that on every other thread. I wanted to feel at one with other women. What's wrong with that?

@Katemumsnet, just to repeat my earlier post in case it was missed:

'Mumsnet' has the word 'mum' in. That has a biological reality as every child is born to a mother. Will you now be changing your name so it doesn't trigger people?

Absolutely everybody knows what a male a female is of pretty much every mammalian species (seahorses and clownfish are not relevant in this discussion). We are of the human species, which is split into males and females. We are still animals, of the animal kingdom. But we are not allowed to say this because it upsets people?

Biology happens to be real

Biological fact is not, in any way, inflammatory.

'A woman is an adult human female' said repeatedly is bad but saying 'TWAW' repeatedly is acceptable . . . mmmm . .

Total fuckwittery.

I'm so relieved that I'm not alone in finding that my mental health has really taken a hit over this. The doxxing, moles in Facebook groups and mailing lists, physical attack on Skepticat, bomb threat at Hastings, blocking stairwells at Bristol, contacting of employers, and targeted harassment of women like Venice, it's all terrifying and I live in constant fear of being "outed", stalked, and harassed, which is why they do it. The idea that I will be unable to have spaces that are free of these violent abusive males and free of the constant feeling of being watched and hunted that goes with the male gaze makes me really miserable. I already have depression and this whole thing is aggravating it to the point that I'm getting suicidal thoughts. But hey, me becoming suicidal doesn't count because I'm female.

This thread was in response to Penny Mordaunt saying "transwomen are women" and the consultation starts from that basis. Which is a clear lie that is utterly uncivil at its core.

And it is inflammatory to say that, actually no, women are adult human females?

All you ever seem to do is fan the flames MNHQ. That thread would have died out by now if it wasn't for you deciding that women should not talk about biology. The reason that you have such a hard time moderating is because of your own actions.