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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Two boys take 1st and 2nd place in Connecticut girls' 100m sprint

281 replies

OrchidInTheSun · 07/06/2018 11:30

twitter.com/GameTimeCT/status/1003739370736816129

Isn't that great? Terry has got the fastest ever meet time for a girl! Poor Bridget is now third.

I wonder if Terry and Andraya will now get university scholarships based on their poor track performances when compared to their male peers?

OP posts:
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NotBadConsidering · 08/06/2018 08:03

Actually, reading a bit today, Hannah Mouncey, previous member of the Australian men's international handball team, has announced a return to handball after a stint in Aussie rules football. A return to women's handball:

mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-26/hannah-mouncey-transgender-athlete-aflw-ban-handball-champion/9801956?pfmredir=sm

Original poster
OrchidInTheSun · 08/06/2018 08:04

NotBad - there's a link to the HeraldSun in this thread which mentions Mouncey breaking a woman's leg but it's now behind a paywall: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3059263-190cm-100kg-size-15-feet-transwoman-tries-to-join-womens-Aussie-Rules-football

However, if you read the comments under this article: gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/10/19/australian-football-league-disqualifies-male-candidate-from-womens-league-draft/ you'll see that all references to the broken leg have been scrubbed by the trans right to forget the past (which is why you won't find any news reports on Martin Ponting's rapes or Paris Lees' conviction)

OP posts:
Beyondourmeans · 08/06/2018 08:11

Men should accept feminine men

That's it isn't it - that would solve a lot of this.

Original poster
OrchidInTheSun · 08/06/2018 08:19

The comments also include a cache of the original article - here are the last couple of paragraphs: "Mouncey played the final three games in the ruck for Ainslie and kicked 15 goals, with Canberra officials ruling she was not a safety concern.

She broke her own ribs in one incident and one player broke her leg in a tangle of legs with Mouncey.

“I am female like 50 per cent of the population. I may have been born a bit different but there was a real sense of normality when I transitioned,” she said.”

OP posts:
OldmanOfTheWeb3 · 08/06/2018 09:31

Men should accept feminine men

I don't recall our rugby team ever refusing to accept someone because they were too feminine or anyone being told they couldn't compete in an athletics event at school for being effeminate. And lets be blunt here, if you've seen these athletes, then on what basis are you calling them "too feminine"? Most of them are hulks.

No, I think it's pretty clear, especially given that many of them have a previous and mediocre history competing in the male events, that if they could win the men's events they would. What happens is having failed to achieve great success in them, they switch to the women's where they dominate, with some exceptions.

They're not in the women's teams because they've been excluded from the men's. Never even heard of an instance.

Baroquehavoc · 08/06/2018 12:20

They're not in the women's teams because they've been excluded from the men's.

I agree, they haven't been excluded from the boys race. This is nothing to do with other men's toxic masculinity or fear of gender unconformity. It's everything about what these two competitors want.

hackmum · 08/06/2018 14:07

Janice Turner has tweeted a link to this story and received a lot of responses, of which I reckon about 75-80% agree that it's unfair, with the rest using the usual combination of evidence, reason and logic that we're so familiar with, e.g. "You are a transphobe", "Transwomen are women" "Trans people suffer terrible discrimination so they should be allowed to compete" etc etc (I paraphrase ).

TimeLady · 08/06/2018 14:12

Janice is a Star

Baroquehavoc · 08/06/2018 14:21

Some of the connection are mind blowing.

Alex Biancardi:
I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one

How is that logical? Transpeople are killed, therefore female only sports should be stopped?

Baroquehavoc · 08/06/2018 14:21

connection? Comments

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 08/06/2018 14:35

'I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one'

Even if the literal killing claim was correct, surely letting transwomen steal prizes from women would make people like them less rather than more...

Picassospaintbrush · 08/06/2018 14:36

Alex Biancardi:
I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one

Alex you fool...

ErrolTheDragon · 08/06/2018 14:39

Ah, the two wrongs make a right school of 'logic'.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 08/06/2018 14:47

Even if the literal killing claim was correct, surely letting transwomen steal prizes from women would make people like them less rather than more... Yes, seems like this is more likely to increase trans hate than anything else. All the parents and other relations of the girls in that race, for a start.

The other girls in this race aren't the ones killing transwomen, it's men doing that. So basically the argument is 'men are horrid to us so we're going to be horrid to girls to make ourselves feel better'. Nice bullying.

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/06/2018 14:56

To anyone thinking this is fine.

Would it be fine to have had Wladimir Klitschko compete against Amir Khan?

No? Of course not. Wlad is six foot six, 250lb and has one of the most powerful punches in history. He’s also extremely fast (amazing how fast such a big man can sprint.)

Khan is a light welterweight (135-140lb.) also a world champ.

Both men were world champions in their weight category. Wlad vs Khan would not have been a fair fight.

So if men and women can compete against each other, do we get rid of weight classifications in boxing? Of handicaps in horse racing? Of course we don’t. Because putting Wlad up against Khan would be fucking insanity.

But of course women don’t matter.

Terfulike · 08/06/2018 15:03

Frankley it looks like were going to have to set up a whole new international Federation, and new national sporting bodies for biological women.

SomeDyke · 08/06/2018 15:10

As regards boxing and handicapping in flat races, seems one motivation is money -- via betting etc. People won't bet or watch for enjoyment something which isn't a fair or interesting competition. This Connecticut case already shows the lack of competition aspect (since I assume there aren't that many transgirls in this age group in one state , so the fact that they both placed........). Except I suspect in this case the monetary aspect will be possible scholarships (so the males win, no change there), and possibly the universities get transwomen rugby players, or boxers, or wrestlers, or whatever other sport, so they're not going to complain either! Which would make the actual advantage of transwomen over females in sport a selling-point for universities. So, even more scholarships, and even less for girls and women. With the ultimate aim of looking like the iran womens football team.................

The really annoying thing though is in parasport, we have a well-developed system of how sensible classification and still give good sport and challenging competition. But suddenly, that is a bad thing when it comes to denying some males the chance to do exactly as they want.

hackmum · 08/06/2018 15:19

"I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one."

That's so daft, isn't it? I honestly wonder sometimes how people can be that thick. Guess what? Women are also literally killed because people (men) don't like them. What does it have to do with sport? Does it mean women should be allowed to run in the under-11s egg and spoon race? There is no connection between the two things at all. Seriously, how do people grow up to be that stupid? It's mind-boggling.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 08/06/2018 15:56

'The other girls in this race aren't the ones killing transwomen, it's men doing that. So basically the argument is 'men are horrid to us so we're going to be horrid to girls to make ourselves feel better'. Nice bullying.'

That's a really good point - that is exactly what is being suggested here.

LangCleg · 08/06/2018 16:02

The really annoying thing though is in parasport, we have a well-developed system of how sensible classification and still give good sport and challenging competition. But suddenly, that is a bad thing when it comes to denying some males the chance to do exactly as they want.

Yes, precisely. Thanks to London 2012 and the long build-up/increased funding, DS2 spent his entire junior athletics career training in a mixed para/standard group. Completely inclusive as a group and a competitive pastime, but a level playing field when it came to actual competition.

OldmanOfTheWeb3 · 08/06/2018 16:06

"I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one."

Lots of people are killed because someone doesn't like them. The question is whether there's this murder epidemic of people because they are trans as some people claim. And the evidence, assuming we're talking the West which is the relevant region for this debate, is no.

Plus, as others have pointed out, in what way would it justify this regardless?

HerFemaleness · 08/06/2018 17:25

Lefty dude bro's are amazingly generous when it comes to giving away women's rights.

TimeLady · 08/06/2018 17:26

I'm going to send this Connecticut story to my County Councillor for Education, (a Conservative) and ask for reassurances that girls here won't be similarly disadvantaged.

I'm also concerned that I can find nothing re. transgender policy in schools on the CC website. Is that the responsibility of individual schools? Who would administer county level school sport?

SuitedandBooted · 08/06/2018 17:32

I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one.

So lets destroy women's sport, because violent men have killed Trans women Confused That's quite a leap.

If Trans people generally want more acceptance, this is hardly the way to do it. What do you imagine the families/friends/coaches etc who have girls involved in competitive sport (as I do) are going to think when they watch that video, and know similar is coming their way soon?

I doubt its going to be "Oh, how brave and inclusive" is it? They know that they are watching males, who couldn't dominate if they had to compete with other males.

The phrase " cheating bastards" springs to mind...