Study find trans kids thrive after early transition

[Wakame]

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

A study has found that young adults who transitioned in childhood through puberty suppression and cross sex hormones are thriving. Here's an excerpt:

"After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being."

It's a small study, but of course, when the results are so unambiguous, they become statistically significant even with smaller studies. You can of course counter this study with more science - just find a larger study that shows the opposite.

80% of children who question gender identity desist.

There is no clinical or ethical justification for affirmative treatment, puberty blockers and cross sex hormones in children. The drugs used have catastrophic physical and cognitive effects, which are irreversible, including:

Sterility
Metabolic disturbances leading to future issues like diabetes
Cognitive decline equivalent to 8IQ points
Osteoporosis

No other field of medicine would be allowed to inflict such catastrophic damage on children if only 20% of the treatment cohort ‘needed’ them. Not a single one. This is child abuse.

These children will never be fertile, never go through correct puberty, and will retain pre pubescent features. They will never have a sex life. Their future risk of cancer, osteoporosis and diabetes will increase.

And no, it being a small study but ... does NOT increase significance. That’s not how stats work.

Wakame, I’ve asked you before and you’ve not answered: can humans change sex?

I am going to propose that no one else answers this thread ... Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board... has done it before and is doing it again....Really great that Bowl has pasted one cogent response - Let's not add any more

Where are the controls?

It's fairly well known that people get happier with their bodies after teenage years.

For this to have any value we'd need comparison with young people who didn't transition.

"Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board."

You might have noticed that this feminist chat board has a lot of threads on trans kids. Posting one that counters some of the others with science, is not really what "derailing" means.

"Wakame, I’ve asked you before and you’ve not answered: can humans change sex?"

I think I answered that fairly thoroughly. Have another look at the thread - you need to find the bit about the question not making sense because it presupposes a strict binary that doesn't actually exist.

Can anyone post a study that has followed trans kids into adulthood and found negative results? Because if you can't, then the best science you have on the subject is the science I just gave you.

I'd be interested to know who funds that journal...

A strict binary does exist. You answered with some waffle about spectrums and gender and feelings.

I’m talking about sex. Can humans change sex.

It's always a good idea to read the whole paper, not just the abstract. From the discussion:

"Despite promising findings, there were various limitations. First, the study sample was small and came from only 1 clinic. Second, this study did not focus on physical side effects of treatment. Publications on physical parameters of the same cohort of adolescents are submitted or in preparation... Third, ... a selection bias could exist between adolescents of the original cohort that participated in this study compared with nonparticipants."

So, three limitations which make this a poor study: small sample size, only analysing one aspect of the outcomes, selection bias (what was the outcome for the young people who did not participate in the study?).

Another bit of the discussion:
"Despite the fact that developing evidence suggests that cognitive and affective cross-gender identification, social role transition, and age at assessment are related to persistence of childhood GD into adolescence, predicting individual persistence at a young age will always remain difficult."

In other words, some children who would have desisted in their dysphoria will be medical patients for life, along with all the other negatives mentioned by Bowlofbabelfish.

"Can humans change sex."

I'll tell you what - I'll see if I can find time to make a new thread out of it in the coming days.

It may be true for children with genuine dysphoria, who have been like that from a very young age. I don't believe that is the majority of children with gender issues though, so still think the best approach (for the vast majority), is a 'wait and see' whilst allowing them to go through puberty. Counselling/love and support. No medical intervention until they're old enough to fully understand the implications of hormones/surgery. Do no harm.

All studies have limitations, including the one I am sure you are about to post showing negative results for a group of trans children followed into adulthood after puberty suppression and cross sex hormones. I mean assume you have such a study? Or is this the best science we currently have on the matter?

"No medical intervention until they're old enough to fully understand the implications of hormones/surgery."

Do you think that a trans child is old enough to decide to go through the puberty that is opposite to their gender identity?

I am going to propose that no one else answers this thread ... Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board... has done it before and is doing it again....Really great that Bowl has pasted one cogent response - Let's not add any more

We should rename wakame whac-a-mole.

"Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board"

This isn't an echo chamber.

People are entitled to post studies regardless of whether they support or challenge the general consensus of this forum.

It's then up to people whether they feel those studies are compelling evidence or not, but that's another topic entirely.

It's like being in grounding day and this ......

I am going to propose that no one else answers this thread ... Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board... has done it before and is doing it again....Really great that Bowl has pasted one cogent response - Let's not add any more

"For this to have any value we'd need comparison with young people who didn't transition."

This might help - it's a study comparing trans kids who socially transitioned with previous studies of trans kids:

www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext

It states:

"These findings are in striking contrast to previous work with gender-nonconforming children who had not socially transitioned, which found very high rates of depression and anxiety."

I think that until there is a way to distuingish between children with full-on, lifelong true dysphoria (a very small percentage) and children who have short-term issues which will resolve as they mature, there should be no medical interventions on children. There should, however, be much more high-quality counselling available, rather than kids getting 'support' on the internet from adults looking back with rose-tinted glasses.

And is there a third type of human gamete?

I see that one of the ‘non-participating’ transwomen from the original group of 70 wasn’t part of the follow-up because she died as a direct result of surgery.

Anyway, children don't 'decide' to go through puberty, their body does. It can be a very traumatic time for many children. That's why a loving, supportive approach is vital. Supportive doesn't have to mean medicalisation.

"These children will never be fertile, never go through correct puberty, and will retain pre pubescent features. They will never have a sex life. Their future risk of cancer, osteoporosis and diabetes will increase."

Factual nonsense.

Fertility - Sperm and ova can be banked. Surrogacy is just as possible as it is for any gay couple and womb transplants etc are already in medical trials.

Puberty - the whole point is that they will go through the correct puberty for them, rather than the incorrect one. They are taking charge of their own bodies - something which has been a basic tenet of feminism for decades. They will therefore not retain pre-pubescent features.

They will be very capable of having a full sex life if they want.

On hormones, the change in osteoporosis risk is small and might even be decreased. There is no known link to diabetes.

Cancer is more complex because the risk is a trade off between prostrate and breast cancer, one increasing while the other decreases.

Dr Polly Carmichael has been one of the speakers at today's event:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

Comments on the content of her speech from Twitter #WSPFEvents. I believe a full transcript of speeches may be available later.

@Wakame and @GibbertyFlibbert

Since you appear to think it's okay for kids to transition, do you also think it's okay for pre-pubescent children to vote, get a tattoo, have piercings, have cosmetic surgery, or take recreational drugs?

If not, why not?