Study find trans kids thrive after early transition

[Wakame]

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

A study has found that young adults who transitioned in childhood through puberty suppression and cross sex hormones are thriving. Here's an excerpt:

"After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being."

It's a small study, but of course, when the results are so unambiguous, they become statistically significant even with smaller studies. You can of course counter this study with more science - just find a larger study that shows the opposite.

Agree OldCrone

@OldCrone - I am just reading posts whilst my phone syncs playlists before I go for a run, The post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, least of all this thread specifically. It is more a view on the MN forums I know many hold.

I am heading out for my run now but I will properly read the last few comments once I am back and sorted. Just saw this and wanted to make sure no one thought I was aiming anything at anyone.

Will follow up soon. :)

Absolutely agree with you Bowlofbabelfish. I have daughters, the eldest is 13. Her class ( of 14 year olds) is full of girls with long hair, and thick makeup. They all wear the same clothes out of school. It is nothing like my class at 14 ( I’m in my 50s). When we were 14 /15 we were mod fans, rocker types, the tail edge of punk, sports players. We had all sorts of hair, but more short than long. We were a pretty diverse bunch, and in my all girls school many of us were not at all “girly”.

None of us really know who we are as teenagers. It's an age where we need to try on different personas to see what fits. And that's exactly what that time should be about. But it needs to be entirely reversible because - in my and many of my friends' experiences - who we thought we were as teenagers is not who we ended up being as adults.

There's a reason why tattoos are banned for under 18s. Why on earth anyone would think voluntary sterilisation and perpetual prepupescence is a good idea is mystifying. Unless they have a very sinister agenda and I don't really want to go there.

If you give puberty blockers at Tanner stage one, there are no sperm or ova available to be banked.

This is a critically important point which is being obscured by all this bullshit and flannel. There can be no biological children if young children block their natural puberty and then go on to take cross sex hormones. Children are effectively making a decision to be sterilised at the age of 9.

NatLuc
I just thought you were replying to my comment. I would like your comments on why you think that those of us who hold that view are naive.

We have strangers mostly men advocating kids buying meds on line, getting tits early and sucking dick ( yes another well known TW made those recommendations) but its not seen as wrong or something to put a stop to....why?

It's a good question, isn't it?

On what therapy people get before transition: from a survey of 200 detransitioned ex-FTM, mostly young women.

"117 of the individuals surveyed had medically transitioned. Of these, only 41 received therapy beforehand. The average length of counseling for those who did attend was 9 months, with a median and mode of 3, minimum of 1, and a maximum of 60."

"I’d like to have something cool to say here, but I’m honestly just stunned at the fact that 65% of these women had no therapy at all before transition."

And on reasons for transition, from that same survey, nearly 60% of detransitioners said they found other ways to cope with dysphoria and nearly 30% said they'd resolved the mental conditions that had led to dysphoria.

But we are not talking about sex, we are talking about someone taking control of their long term wellbeing

Yes, and their long term wellbeing may depend on not being enabled by adults who are supposed to protect them to take a life changing path when they aren't capable of understanding the full ramifications.

The bits of the brain that deal with mature risk and decision making aren’t actually mature until about 25.

And I agree with the point about buying hormones yourself - gosh that is really dangerous. You need access to a lab to monitor bloods if you’re altering hormone levels. I’ve seen a few people on here talking about self medicating with thyroxine and it’s such a risk - everyone reacts slightly differently and you do need that lab feedback and a trained eye to examine the results as well. It’s not just levels of individual things, often the pattern of results is as informative as a single out of range result. It’s a very risky thing to do.

To me there is such a gulf between what an adult understands as consequences and what a child can. A capable adult, who has been through a rigorous process of diagnosis for gender dsyphoria and still wants to transition? Well OK... it’s your bodily autonomy and you can alter your body as you wish.
For a child though it’s a different matter. They are not capable of understanding the ramifications of what they’re doing.

"I want children to get to adulthood intact, unmediated, fertile, sexually functional and reconciled to their physicality."

There is a whole debate which should be had about what age children should become adults. Would you believe that the age for criminal responsibility is 10? It's very hard to argue that someone should be criminallly liable as an adult but not allowed to decide what to do with their body. For me 10 is way, way to young but I do think that rights and responsibilities go hand in hand so whatever age we make children criminallly responsibile for their actions should be the age at which they can decide on medical treatment affecting themselves.

Personally I think 14 might be a reasonable compromise for criminal responsibility and authority over your own body (including hormones) but I can see a strong case for 16 too.

It's a good question, isn't it?

I have asked the same question multiple times and I am still waiting on an answer Eresh

Oops not from you obviously

I went on these drugs at 25 out of desperation. I had researched the risks but even I didn’t understand the gravity or the long term effects on my body. At 14 or 16 or 18 I’d have had no chance.

There are many conditions where people must feel deeply unhappy about their bodies: many people who are born disabled or become disabled in later life, for example

This is a huge issue when you acquire a disability. Huge. It can consume you. It's very hard when your body starts altering because you know you just have to lump it. It has caused me significant distress over decades of my life. I have had to find a way to cope. The distress ebbs and flows but sometimes it is still significant. I have had to work really hard to a) find things to like about myself and b) take the focus off my body and focus on other things in my life

Personally I think 14 might be a reasonable compromise for criminal responsibility and authority over your own body (including hormones)

And does that include freely consenting to sex Gibberty? Just asking.

I read this article at the weekend & it references the women's groups. I wasn't aware of this issue with Lupron

Huge issues. @TammySwansonTwo has discussed the effects she has experienced on multiple threads including earlier in this one but the transactivists never engage with this.

Natluc and the others, this is what you are advocating children that have absolutely nothing to do with you should take. Ask Tammy what she thinks.

Sorry Tammy, cross post with yours.

Oops not from you obviously

I realised

No, funnily enough no one wants to talk about actual experiences on these drugs since they differ so drastically from the party line.

Perhaps my analogy was not a perfect one, but I think it is applicable seeing as medical consent is already set at 16..

It's a really different thing to consent to something like an appendix being removed or a vaccination or a broken bone being operated on and rendering oneself sterile whilst in the grip of self-hatred which has a good chance of not lasting into adulthood.

I respect that in extreme cases it might, sadly, be a beneficial step to take but it's so drastic. Medical consent wasn't set at 16 with ROGD in mind. This rise in cases is unprecedented.

Also worth pointing out that it’s only licensed for six months use in adult women with endometriosis - if it’s so harmless, why is that? My consultant made me stop it after two years, but the damage was already done by then. How many years are these kids taking it for?

"I’d like to have something cool to say here, but I’m honestly just stunned at the fact that 65% of these women had no therapy at all before transition."

I would have liked to see broad agreement on the need for significantly more therapy but from what I remember of the Transger Trend material they are telling schools to not allow medical appointments during school hours which, of course, is likely to make specialist counselling impossible to arrange. If my memory is correct, that means things might get worse rather than better.

A ten year old is not treated by the system as a twenty year old would be. We have young offender systems, juvenile type dentention etc.

Personally I think 14 might be a reasonable compromise for criminal responsibility and authority over your own body (including hormones)

The same question I asked above - would this include having sex?

A 14 year old is Too young to understand the ramifications of these drugs and this process. The age of consent in clinical trials for example is 16 in the UK and 18 in many other countries.

www.hra-decisiontools.org.uk/consent/principles-children-EngWalesNI.html

I am deeply disturbed by the idea that adults are interfering in the sexual, physical and mental development of children. When you consider that a lot of these kids are by definition vulnerable, it gets worse. When you have a think about the concept of creating perma-children who are then sexualised into a facsimile of the opposite sex it gets more disturbing still.