Study find trans kids thrive after early transition

[Wakame]

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

A study has found that young adults who transitioned in childhood through puberty suppression and cross sex hormones are thriving. Here's an excerpt:

"After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being."

It's a small study, but of course, when the results are so unambiguous, they become statistically significant even with smaller studies. You can of course counter this study with more science - just find a larger study that shows the opposite.

"There should, however, be much more high-quality counselling available, rather than kids getting 'support' on the internet from adults looking back with rose-tinted glasses."

For a very different perspective, talk to some people who transition between 18 and 21 whose parents refused to allow blockers.

How do people who were sterilised as children manage as adults?

Do they ever mature in the way adults are supposed to mature? Puberty is for brain development as well.

trumpdump, which doctors are recommending those things?

I should imagine it will be tough to find much concrete data to prove the opposite as research that might conceivably challenge your narrative is actively being blocked, so for example:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41384473

What has happened is people like you have attacked academia as if this is a settled question, only permitting research that suits your agenda. The only stuff we're likely to see for a while is stuff that suits your talking points.

That isn't science btw, at least not really. It's propaganda, and there is historical precedent if you really want to get into the weeds with this:

www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-the-soviet-union-chose-the-wrong-side-on-genetics-and-evolution-23179035/

Personally were I to be on your side of the debate I would be twice as critical of whatever 'science' my side produces, as I would want to make damn sure I'd gotten my ducks in a row before going for my gotcha moment on a forum full of my opponents.

At the present moment the extreme trans activist side present a distinctly anti-rational bias. Any natural and healthy skepticism should be embraced, not just lumped in as simple transphobia. I'd be happy to see more science done in this area, but unless you join me in the condemnation of the shutting down of scientific enquiry, then I don't think you have any right to claim the evidence and scientific based moral high ground.

"Do they ever mature in the way adults are supposed to mature? Puberty is for brain development as well."

Talk to people who have been in that position and they can tell you themselves

bowl
I don’t want to out myself but I have reasons to be v concerned about a teen related to me
Your post exactly sums up what I feel

Which scientific studies were shut down? Even if shut down there will be academic papers. Do you have links?

It's a small study, but of course, when the results are so unambiguous, they become statistically significant even with smaller studies. You can of course counter this study with more science - just find a larger study that shows the opposite.

Both inaccurate statements. The results aren't unambiguous if you read the actual full study, there are as stated several concerns with the study that they acknowledge (also the last assessment was only a year after surgery which tells us nothing about long term well-being for this group or if the improvement is caused more by the passing of time and/or therapy than the hormones and surgery, and quite a few of the P values in the study show a lack of statistical significance, I don't think I've seen one with so many less than .001s in a while), small studies are more thrown off by anomalies which is why that's so often pointed out and larger studies are preferred, and when presented articles as evidence for a something, there is no mandate that anyone counters it with another article but only to analyse the evidence as it has been presented. If your article has clear issues, it doesn't matter what anything else says...that's kinda how article reviews work.

Any article you spam others with must be able to stand on its own and should be analyzed on their own. It's no one else's job to find further research for you. Use researchgate or any of the many trans research groups if that's what you want. Why you keep thinking any one study or meta study is 'the best' I don't know, but that's not how academic research or science works and that's before getting into the politics and how many areas of related research - like detransitioners - are currently being blocked or how people are still currently fighting for all research to be accessible as there is a major issue in how a lot, some even say most, of research is tossed out.

Also, you seemed to have missed the conclusion where it states that a major factor in the success on these treatments is "a comprehensive multidisciplinary approach that attends to the adolescents’ GD as well as their further well-being and a supportive environment." The therapies that these young people were given as part of their assessments and on-going treatments are a clinically very important part of why the kids are doing well. None of them transitioned using only internet advice, none transitioned without thorough therapy. Maybe not as much as I would like, but there is nothing in the article that comes even close to claiming that early transition by itself is what makes any of these kids thrive. Overall, unconvincing.

The gender dysphoria scale used in the study is not validated fully.

research.vu.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/42117774

Therefore the results of this study are inconclusive.

Second, this study did not focus on physical side effects of treatment.

Can’t say I’m surprised. Having actually been on these drugs, suffered for the decade since on a daily basis, unable to work, zero sex drive, truly debilitating symptoms, I’d say that assessing satisfaction with these treatments while ignoring physical side effects is deliberately misleading.

I find it astounding that anyone is recommending that we give our children drugs designed to stunt their development, sterilise them and put then on course for a lifetime of different drugs and mutilation. How can that be a better outcome than supporting them to realise that human beings can't change sex? It can't be.

So does that mean Jazz Jennings didn't transition early enough

Jazz was transed at 3yo and sadly has been struggling with depression and anxiety for many years and now has weight problems. Jazz could not have a more supportive family and friends. So I don't accept the younger the better model at all.

Personally I think everyone should endure natural puberty. No-one enjoys it but puberty matures your body and brain. Allowing many children to outgrow childhood anxieties about their bodies and concern about their sexual attraction. If left alone children will generally grow up and accept their natal sex and body.

Once their brain is fully mature, in their mid twenties, then they can decide if they would like socially transition, take hormones and get surgery.

"Where are the controls?"

Have you ever sat down and shared a bottle of wine with doctors in this field? Controls means denying treatment to people whom the doctors believe would benefit from it. That raises huge medical ethics issues.

I also understand why people can look at studies like this and believe it should be bigger but the sad truth is that funding in this area is very limited. Drugs companies fund large trials in the hope of making billions. There simply isn't a return on investment. It would be good to see the Government fund large scale trials but we know it isn't going to happen. So we get small scale trials by PhD students and studies done by clinicians in their spare time.

If you want to see better and bigger studies then campaign for proper funding.

GibbertyFlibbert
"Do they ever mature in the way adults are supposed to mature? Puberty is for brain development as well."

Talk to people who have been in that position and they can tell you themselves

What a flippant and cruel suggestion. Link to a study instead of suggesting people hassle each other.

Which scientific studies were shut down? Even if shut down there will be academic papers. Do you have links?

There is a lot of research done that never makes the light of day either due to funding shut downs, institutions shutting it down, or the results are considered not significant enough or not what the backers want. I've seen estimates that about half of US clinical trials will never be published, I think there are likely similar numbers elsewhere.

James Caspian's treatment by Bath Spa University is probably one of the best well-known recent ones of research being blocked before it even got off the ground for political reasons.

"Personally I think everyone should endure natural puberty. "

The whole point is to allow the puberty which is natural to those involved.

Dr Polly Carmichael quoted in Spectator article by James Kirkup:
"The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

additionally,
"Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

The quotes are taken from a recent lecture given by Polly Carmichael and the embedded link from the article is here:

soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

NB Dr Carmichael is head of the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) of the Tavistock and Portman Trust, which is the NHS centre of excellence for helping children and adolescents with gender dsyphoria and other issues of gender-variance.

"What a flippant and cruel suggestion. Link to a study instead of suggesting people hassle each other."

So which recent studies in peer-reviewed journals support your views?

"Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

Exactly. That shows really well that the clinicians involved in this field are very switched on. They aren't idealogically driven but are concerned with doing the best for their patients.

My hope isn't that children medically transition but that everyone, on both sides, will allow the clinicians to make an informed assessment on a case by case basis. I genuinely don't understand how that can be contentious.

Some parents with children who identify as transgender have taken issue with the Tavistock approach during Polly Carmichael's speech.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

twitter.com/DadTrans/status/1003597538384019457

Yea - sterility, long term health problems and no sexual function - such a positive outcome 🙄
Prepubescent sperm and ova are useless because PUBERTY is what activates them .
Another muppet talking about womb transplants

"womb transplants etc are already in medical trials."

Uterus transplants for women. No male pelvis will be able to support a gestation, it's too small and the wrong shape.

Womb transplants into males can never be ethical as you are basically experimenting on a foetus of high gestational age which is unable to consent

But they will face a host of health problems, some of them very extreme like infertility. That isn't thriving.

Lol at womb transplants into men/trans women BTW. Is this a science fiction thread?