What if we fail?

[Terfulike]

I find myself worrying about where we will be 2, 5, 10, 20 years from now if we fail to stop the tide that, just now, with the GRA reforms, threatens to redefine the meaning of the word woman, erase lesbians and damage a generation of children.

I'm not saying we should give up: anything but. In fact, I think it might be an important motivating factor to consider what else might happen if our MPs continue to enshrine lies into laws.

What will come next?

The day after we start from the position where we find ourselves, just as women have done throughout history. We define what we want and we work towards achieving it.
We keep talking about women, who we are and what we need.

That's the calm, rational version anyway.

Back to hundreds of years of fighting for female spaces and such I guess.

Except with the added bonus of instead of 'man hating' we are 'transphobic'

Mind, I do think if it goes through, more than just feminists will be pissed off about it. I do think that IF men started kicking off, everything would change in an instant. I mean, look at the swim england guidance, women were to be re educated but once men complained, it was back to the drawing board. Same with the Hampstead Heath thing. Fine to let men ('self identified' women) into the womens pool, but women (self identifying men) are removed from the mens. I like to think we are now past the stage where such obvious double standards will be ignored, so if no women are allowed in the mens, then no men should be allowed in the womens tbh

"where we will be 2, 5, 10, 20 years from now if we fail to stop the tide"

There will officially be 0.6% more women in the world, and a small group of vulnerable children will be getting the help they need.

Everything else will be pretty much the same.

Everything else will be pretty much the same

Nothing else will be the same, only we will not have the means to describe it or measure it.

a small group of vulnerable children will be getting the help they need.

In what way?

Lets stick to what will we do if we fail to protect sex as a characteristic, and not get sidetracked.

We carry on. We fight. Same shit, different name.

I guess we start all over again.

Just keep swimming....

I had thought that our ability to communicate would prevent the roll back of women's rights that have happened before.
Now that women are being beaten in the streets and silenced on the internet I no longer think it will be different from previous times that women were driven out of the public sphere by abusive males.
Women as a class never give in, and we never give up, and won't this time either.

Nothing else will be the same, only we will not have the means to describe it or measure it

This.

Women have already lost, in some parts of the world. Certainly have lost the trans fight in Canada. And look at how badly they lost in Iran. We could lose. I can't think of where to flee to.

There will officially be 0.6% more women in the world, and a small group of vulnerable children will be getting the help they need.

Everything else will be pretty much the same.

You don't seem at all concerned about women being physically beaten in the streets in order to silence them. Weird huh?

Same old same old indeed.

@WAKAME What word will be used to describe biological/natal females in this brave new world?

Nothing much really, transsexual people will be able to get legal paperwork more easily (like birth certificate, remember driving licence and passports can be changed with ease now), trans people will get their pensions relent to their gender, oh and vulnerable children will be getting the help they need as well. That's it really, it will be the same.

🙄

I do wonder what will happen if we get more and more males competing in women's sports. Will there be a point where it reaches mainstream attention and there are public protests?

It is indeed worrying. I also find the undermining of men worrying too. Maybe the solution lies in redefining boundaries for the two genders - male and female. That will then help define transgender people.

Maybe the solution lies in redefining boundaries for the two genders - male and female.

That's the opposite of gender-critical feminism. We believe in breaking down gender boundaries while acknowledging biological sex. TRAs are the ones who're keen on gender.

If it was really going to be the same, TRAs wouldn't be in an all out war to silence anyone who voices any resistance - would they?

trans people will get their pensions relent to their gender

I thought pension ages were equal now anyway?

Infact, wasn't the reason for GRCs basically, so trans people could marry someone of the same sex, and access pensions at the age that the sex they wish they were got it? Though somehow I can't see many transmen asking for their pension LATER (but as I said, I am sure its equal now anyway, like it should be really)

Well, as pessimistic as I am, particularly as pretty much every uni student buys into this shit, I think we have a bigger breathing space than previously thanks in no small part to fearless journalists, fantastic feminist groups and brave MPs.

There will officially be 0.6% more women in the world

Your maths sucks,WAKAME.

Whatever MRA/TRA demand, woman and girls still want and need sex segregation, we will just have to keep on fighting.

Market forces will come into play. Businesses will have to provide secure individual toilets and changing rooms, or risk losing some of their business.
Womens sports will lose sponsors, because straight men do not want to watch transwomen. Glamourous attractive women are very important for women's sport, for that reason (I know that won't be a popular view on mumsnet)
Violence and hostility towards some transpeople will increase. Some men will not take kindly to men being able to use the same changing rooms and toilets as their female relatives.
Women's groups, especially lesbians, will start to meet in secret and rebuild as an underground community.
Gay men will move away from the LGBT movement, resulting in a loss of funding. I believe these last 2 are already happening.
There will eventually be law suits brought by detransitioners, especially those who were socially transitioned at a very young age. I think this is inevitable, especially in America.
These are just my predictions. In the interest of fairness some good things might happen, but I'm not sure what they are.