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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian and manfriday! Finally, thanks Hadley!

249 replies

Tackytriceratops · 31/03/2018 09:03

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/31/man-explains-what-means-be-woman?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Whoop!

I'm pretty sure Hadley's here Wink

OP posts:
2rebecca · 31/03/2018 10:39

An excellent article. Really pleased to see the Guardian finally allowing gender critical women's views to be expressed. Bravo Hadley

TanteRose · 31/03/2018 10:40

Brilliant article, Hadley.
You're one of the reasons I still read the Graun SmileFlowers

Tackytriceratops · 31/03/2018 10:43

New thread for Debbie

A very insightful article by Debbie Hayton www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3209206-a-very-insightful-article-by-debbie-hayton

OP posts:
Ellenripleysalienbaby · 31/03/2018 10:51

Still these brocialists aren't entirely clear on what a woman now is. Ask them to define woman and all you get is 'someone who identifies as a woman'.

Until you ask about sexual relations, then the line is very clear.

It's like James O Brien and his hand wringing questioning about this on his show. At what point should women accept transwomen into their sex segregated spaces, he was pressing Hannah on it.

I think if you asked him if he would have sex with a transwoman, then that question would be answered very quickly.

Ellenripleysalienbaby · 31/03/2018 10:52

That was an excellent, EXCELLENT article by Hadley as well!

SwearyG · 31/03/2018 10:53

What a great piece. We spoke to Hadley a week or so back and she’s done everyone proud, I think.

I agree that her point re women and TIMs having to sort it out between ourselves is wrong. Men need to budge the fuck up and make space for the TIMs. I think she wouldn’t have got that past editorial though.

IndominusRex · 31/03/2018 10:54

Bloody love Hadley. She's especially brave to hit publish on this today (trans day of visibility) and after the hellish week she has had with the anti semites all piling on.

THANK YOU HADLEY!

NoSquirrels · 31/03/2018 10:56

Perhaps this is the perfect week - push a woman so far and see what happens?

VaguelyAware · 31/03/2018 11:04

Both excellent articles. Really heartening.

NotTerfNorCis · 31/03/2018 11:05

I think if you asked him if he would have sex with a transwoman, then that question would be answered very quickly.

When lesbians won't accept pre-op transwomen as sexual partners, they're bigoted. When gay men won't accept trans men as sexual partners, you're a bigot for mentioning it. Owen Jones sez.

Kneedeepinunicorns · 31/03/2018 11:06

I just read a very well put piece in the Guardian.

I actually just read a pro woman, balanced, sensible piece in the Guardian.

This is amazing, Hadley. Clear, to the point, very hard for any sensible, rational person to see what the howls of phobic/hate/prejudice/literal violence would be about, and I love this:

There is no simple solution to accommodating both the rights of self-identified trans women and other women. In some cases, they’ll share spaces, in some they won’t, and sometimes a third option will have to be found

Yes, I could argue with 'rights' - It has never been a legal 'right' to access minority provision by self definition and shouldn't be, that's an utter legal minefield, but that's a whole other article. And yes, thank you I'm not an 'other woman', BUT there was no cissing anywhere to be seen and that is huge. And this is nitpicking, because I'm way down the road of getting the issues with self ID and Hadley's talking mostly to the millions who don't have much idea. For that purpose it's ideal.

AND it sets the stall out: some spaces to share, yes fine. Some not fine. Sometimes a third space will be required. And EVERYONES needs and interests matter equally, not just trans people's. To say otherwise is based on male privilege policing and oppressing women. (Again.)

Alternativefacts · 31/03/2018 11:07

Fantastic article Hadley, really well put. Good start to the weekend. Flowers . ( Guardian editors if you’re reading, longer time reader here, cancelled my subscription last week over your dreadful one sided coverage these issues)

AbeFroman · 31/03/2018 11:11

Brilliant, Hadley!
I’ve been waiting for this from her.

Threewheeler1 · 31/03/2018 11:24

Yet another thank you to Hadley.
She's one of the few reasons I still read the Guardian.
I love the fact that she can write so well about such a broad range of subjects. Would be happy to see a lot more of her writing.

catgirl1976 · 31/03/2018 11:30

Absolutely brilliant. As someone said on Twitter this morning, every line of it is quotable. I've shared in on FB and I usually keep my GC stuff to here and Twitter.

Threewheeler1 · 31/03/2018 11:34

Alternativefacts
I don't blame you for cancelling your subscription!
I can't cope with what the Guardian has become - it's so depressing and disappointing.
After almost 30 years, it's no longer my main news source and I don't imagine it ever will be again.
OJ seems to have a platform to say whatever he likes, without challenge, and reading anything he writes is like wading through a bathtub of stodgy cold porridge.
I find I'm so buoyed up by the fact that Hadley managed to get this article published!

YesItsADebate · 31/03/2018 11:50

I’m thrilled that this has made it to the Guardian. Well done Hadley and well done @SwearyG for handling all the #ManFriday media bits like a pro.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 31/03/2018 12:03

Thanks Hadley.

FlowersFlowers

StarsAndWater · 31/03/2018 12:07

One of the things I like about it is how she deftly aims it at liberal men not transwomen.
I'm already seeing TRAs on Twitter getting outraged and insisting it's transphobic and calling for her to be fired.
Except they don't have a single line to quote because it's not about them.
Brilliant way to raise the visibility.
I think it's likely a lot of female trans supporters who haven't really paid much attention so far will read it to see what the fuss is about and have a peak trans moment.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 31/03/2018 12:09

I have emailed her to thank her.

Amethyst975 · 31/03/2018 12:12

Yes, it's a great article.

But for me it's only half the story. I'm still baffled and dismayed that there are so many women at the frontline of the "Transwomen are women" campaign. Does anyone have any good links to articles or discussions on that?

Tackytriceratops · 31/03/2018 12:15

Absolutely stars. Very clever writing.

OP posts:
Ritzsaltedcrackers · 31/03/2018 12:20

Some shocking comments on the Guardian FB including someone screen shotting another persons like of the article and proudly declaring that ‘bigots need to be outed’ and they are sending the screenshot to said persons employer.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156739208966323&id=10513336322

newtlover · 31/03/2018 12:25

fantastic article, thank you Hadley, you may just have saved me from cancelling my subscription (has been in the balance)
a shame we can't comment, if they do open comments, can people share here?

TheStickSong · 31/03/2018 12:27

Just coming along to applaud as well. A fabulously succinct, clear and unarguable piece. What a hero - thanks Hadley.

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