Guardian and manfriday! Finally, thanks Hadley!

[Tackytriceratops]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/31/man-explains-what-means-be-woman?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Whoop!

I'm pretty sure Hadley's here

The tide is most definitely turning.

Wasn’t Trans Visibilty Dsy yesterday?

Published on Trans Visibility Day as well. Quite bold.

Yaassss Hadley! I think it that considering it's in the Guardian, it's a very good piece.

"t'd be awful to see the older, wiser women being marginalised and replaced with blue haired ninnies who have no life experience. "

Oh dear. Older isn't necessarily wiser. Someone posted a link to some research proving this on the thread about women losing their perceived value as they get older.

Did she make the point: do we want our laws to be about objective facts or about how someone feels? Otherwise I liked it a lot.

For me anyway this is the strongest argument. All the opinion pieces in the guardian have the quote ‘comment is free but facts are sacred’ at the top. I think this is the only thing that will eventually get through.

Really good article.

Comment on Twitter:

'Really wondering who at @guardianopinion thought it was appropriate to publish a @HadleyFreeman anti-trans piece on #TransDayOfVisibility solidly demonstrating how white cis woman always HAVE to be the centre of 'feminism' even on days specifically allocated to others.'

Yes women tend to be the centre of feminism. Funny that.

NotBadConsidering: "Yes, but when they do, they remove comments that challenge the article, and close comments after a few hours if it's going against the tone of the article. That suggests editorial policy rather than a workload for moderators issue. Like I said, I'm still grinding my axe about my comment challenging Sally Phillips' anti-abortion line disappearing."

I agree with you about this. Sometimes when they do allow comments on trans articles, and I've commented in a very reasonable and moderate way, I've had the comment deleted. Not so long ago I was even put on a "warning". I can't tell you how much that infuriates me.

On the other hand, I do feel that it's up to the Guardian. They don't have to make their content free, and they don't have to allow comments. That's why I take issue with the term "censorship", which in my view is bandied about far too freely.

It's not anti trans. It's anti liberal men shouting down women.

Just seen this by Debbie. I think it needs its own thread though.

quillette.com/2018/03/30/plea-trans-activists-can-protect-trans-rights-without-denying-biology/

Fantastic piece. I'm amazed she got this published by the Graun. Nice to see someone with a bit of clout taking OJ down a peg or two (nothing veiled about it!).

As others have said, the "other women" bit at the end definitely jarred with the rest of the piece. I suspect it's either been subbed or she's had to tone down an original version.

what a woman now is

Still these brocialists aren't entirely clear on what a woman now is. Ask them to define woman and all you get is 'someone who identifies as a woman'.

Yeah, on fifth reading, there's nothing veiled about it!

That's why I take issue with the term "censorship", which in my view is bandied about far too freely.

But for me, it's their form of censorship - the fact you can't debate issues such as trans issues without being moderated - and their hypocrisy around censorship that stops me from subscribing/donating. I refuse to pay money to an organisation that doesn't allow sensible debate or criticism of their authors. So while I agree it's up to them, I find it makes them a lesser organisation. If they put up a paywall I wouldn't be interested in paying for the privilege of being moderated. I genuinely think it is censorship. I don't think I'm being too free with that word; they're happy to criticise organisations like Facebook for removing BF photos but you can't write "a trans woman is not a woman". It's all a form of censorship.

Sometimes Hadley's articles open for comments late. I'll be interested to see which way this one goes. The fact it's not orange in the "opinion" style suggests they won't.

Sorry, by Debbie Hayton.

Very brave of her. And a very thoughtful piece.

International Transgender Day of Visibility falls annually on March 31, though even the most casual observer must wonder if we still need a day to mark it. In the three years since Caitlin Jenner transitioned there has been an explosion of transgender visibility. What might be lacking is an International Day of Transgender Understanding. Western society has been keen to affirm trans people, and that is to be welcomed, but it has been slower to think critically about the wider impact of legislative change, and particularly the effect on women and their right to organise and associate as a biological sex.

go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=quillette.com/2018/03/30/plea-trans-activists-can-protect-trans-rights-without-denying-biology/

Brava Hadley! Brilliant article. It says a lot that DH brought it to my attention by saying how excellent it was & that I should read it - I rarely bother with the Guardian now. Powerful stuff. Thank you!

I want to give Hadley a medal.

Brocialists would say that the definition of a woman is 'someone who identifies as a woman' and actually is a woman except for relationship purposes with them.

Straight brocialists want a biological woman to have sex with, not a man who identifies as a woman.

Gay brocialists want a biological man to have sex with, not a woman who identifies as a man.

We should accept this without question of course.

A really excellent article and intelligently restrained so as not to attract hysteria from certain quarters.

It's brilliant. Flawed obviously as pp have pointed out but just getting a piece into the guardian that doesn't centre menz feelz is lovely.

Nicely done, Hadley. :)

That Debbie Hayton piece is excellent.