Can you be a feminist and be completely accepting of transgender individuals?

[MagicSweets]

It seems to be a thing that the majority of feminists on here are against transgender people. I'm just curious if you can be a feminist and completely accept transgender individuals.

I think that just as tolerance has come to mean submit, so now does acceptance come to mean serve.
If you listen to what trans identified males say they want from women they really are telling you who they are and you really should take the advice of Maya Angelou and believe them.

I just already feel like people on here think trans men are felt sorry for and need protecting. Yet trans woman are awful and rape

Transwomen commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as men do (probably slightly higher now)

Transmen commit violent and sexual crime at the same rate as women do.

I've seen plenty of trans men out and about. It's not hard to tell that they're female. If I can tell, so can rapists.

I just already feel like people on here think trans men are felt sorry for and need protecting. Yet trans woman are awful and rape.

Transmen are female. And transwomen are male.

Male people are much much mroe likely to commit sexual violence.

None thinks all transwomen are rapists. But all transwomen are male. And male people are not female. So should not be in female spaces (though personally I would make an exception for post op transsexuals, others may not though)

@TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole - erm because he wants to be a woman? I don't know. He asked because he needed a key. It's a small privately run shop.

What about trans men. Do they have the same problems women do? I don't think they do. If they've had testosterone and are now huge and muscley, are they likely to be sexually assaulted like the women in today are (even though, they are still women in your eyes right?) it's confusing

Very few transmen are "huge". They don't get taller and get massive muscles, they look like women. They look like women with short hair. And yes, they do get sexually assaulted.

One was even raped by a transwoman who then posted about it all over the internet and still got to speak at the women's march

erm because he wants to be a woman? I don't know. He asked because he needed a key. It's a small privately run shop.

But he specifically asked for the female loos, rather than the male ones. What he 'wants to be' is pretty irrelevant, he is male.

I can understand not wanting to use the male loos if you 'pass' as a woman and its a communal area, where other men could be. But a single room? Nah. I don't get it.

You think Jazz Jennings looks male?

I suppose a guy wearing a dress and make up could be harassed in a male toilet?

I'm starting to think that an optician may be your best bet in terms of resolving some of your confusion, MagicSweets.

So do you have a problem with women (trans men) looking female but demanding they're male? Wanting to use male loos, etc.?

I suppose a guy wearing a dress and make up could be harassed in a male toilet?

Then other men need to stop behaving like twats and leave gender non conforming men alone.

I have never watched Jazz. They look quite feminine on photos though. But then again, so did India Willougby, very carefully posed photos India passed well I think. But actually watching them on TV? Totally male. Everything about them screamed male.

Maybe so, as Jazz Jennings definitely doesn't look male to me.

This NAMALT game is getting old and tired.
Doesn't matter how many times we say yes, we know, we are talking about the predators, the interrogation and accusations continue.

IME most transmen use female toilets unless they are 100% sure they pass.

So do you have a problem with women (trans men) looking female but demanding they're male? Wanting to use male loos, etc.?

Male loos do not bother me. Its up to men to speak up about that if they have a problem. Women are not a danger to men though, in the same way men are a danger to women. So men may feel unconfortable, but not unsafe.

Just curious though. If Jazz has never been through male puberty, surely she is more at risk in a male toilet?

I suppose a guy wearing a dress and make up could be harassed in a male toilet?

You said it was a single room. In a small shop. That he had to ask for the key (to the female one, rather than the correct one)

So how would other men harrass him in the loo?

I can confirm that India Willougby does not pass as well in real life as she does in pictures.

@TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole oh I don't mean in that toilet. I think that was for himself, that he is accepted as a woman. IMO.

Accepted by what, the sink? In a single occupancy toilet there would be nobody else in there to accept or reject him.

So do you have a problem with women (trans men) looking female but demanding they're male? Wanting to use male loos, etc.?

Not my problem. Feminism is about women. Dh said he'd feel uncomfortable going for a shit with a woman in the toilets. But you know, he's not worried about getting raped. So that's their fight if they want to have it.

Jazz may well be at risk in a male loo. This is why feminists are up for fighting alongside transpeople for a third, unisex option. Not unisex instead of female and male, unisex ontop of those.

Though, even though Jazz is not post-op, I would not mind them in the female areas; As they do not seem to be a raging entitled misogynist like most transactivists and 'transgender' (as opposed to transsexual) people seem to be.

On the other hand, its not up to me to set boundaries for other women. And I do not really feel penises should be in womens spaces tbh, with the exception of small children with their parents.

Trans people have been using womens spaces for ages anyway on an honour system, we do not need laws that declare any man is a woman. Those will be abused.