Can you be a feminist and be completely accepting of transgender individuals?

[MagicSweets]

It seems to be a thing that the majority of feminists on here are against transgender people. I'm just curious if you can be a feminist and completely accept transgender individuals.

I'm accepting of trans-people, many of them post on here (Hi TruScum, welcome).

I just dont agree they are actually women and should be ceded all women's rights. Funnily enough neither do they, mostly.

The people I don't accept, are transactivists, who are misogynistic fuckers.

Clearly and utterly completely bollocks, and I suggest you stick around and read some threads to see how utterly bollocks that actually is.

Is it in a young transgender person's best interests to be pushed towards medicalisation and sterility, when 80% of them are likely to grow out of any dysphoric feelings and settle down to become gay or lesbian adults? Is it in the best interests of transgender people to attempt to block research into the numbers of people who detransition and regret transitioning in the first place? Is it in the best interests of transgender people to silence questioning about how many, particularly young girls, may be experiencing dysphoric feelings as a result of sexual abuse or autism or guilt over homosexuality?

What exactly is so wrong with a watchful waiting approach when it comes to a young person who might be experiencing dysphoric feelings? Why are the TRAs so determined to push them towards making their mind up, rather than supporting them to find their own way without pressure?

I would suggest that actually the majority of feminists on here are actually far more concerned about the risks faced by transgender individuals (particularly the biological girls, who will inevitably be at the most risk as a result of their biology -- sterility, for example, will inevitably affect them more than it will biological males, should they choose to have children further down the line) than the average TRA.

How much of trans-right activism is actually focused on biological girls who identify as trans?

That a MNetter has reclaimed the abusive term 'TruScum' from TRAs in defiance of being the 'wrong kind of trans' tells you pretty much all you need to know about the inclusiveness and values of that group.

I'm absolutely accepting of transgender individuals, I absolutely support the right of anyone to define and present themselves any way that is true to themselves, without suffering discrimination or abuse from people based on meaningless gender stereotypes. My issue is with political parties considering self ID, which removes the legal rights of women and girls, which is a sex offenders charter endangering women, girls and trans people, and is sleep walking into the legal validation of subjective feelings over objective material reality. Which is plain ridiculous and will massively fuck up all kinds of British law. Not least opening the door to legalising paedophilia and 'trans age'. Not ok with that. Not ok with that at all.

I don't define myself as a 'feminist', I think the word has lost all meaning. 'Women's Libber' possibly. Terfragette will also do. Or Bloody Annoyed Person With Vagina.

Hi, TruScum!

Haven't seen anything transphobic as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, we have a few transsexual posters and they usually say the same. In all honesty we do get the odd transphobic comment, but its generally reported and deleted very quickly so it tends to be gone before too many have a chance to read it.

Seems to be only virtue signalers who see transphobia constantly on here. oh, and transactivists. Though oddly enough, they can never point out any of this transphobia.

And yes, welcome, TruScum, although your choice of name makes me .

I think it's also important to bear in mind how fucking massive the double standards are here, and how hugely weighted against our favour, when any kind of questioning or dissent is automatically labelled as transphobic.

TRAs can be as jaw-droppingly offensive as they want, resorting to threats of rape and violence on Twitter, but god forbid an uppity woman should be allowed to get a bit snippy on Mumsnet or the SKY WILL FALL.

FGS everyone on MN is completely accepting of genuine transgender people. Read the numerous fucking threads on this OP

It seems to be a thing that the majority of feminists on here are against transgender people.

I don't think you'll find many posters on here that agree with your premise!

I don't think any of the posters that I personally recall encountering on here are 'against transgender people' at all. What does tend to be a near-consensus view is that 'woman' and 'female' aren't meaningless labels that anybody at all can choose to DIY-apply to themselves while expecting to then get access to all things intended for people so labelled.

There also tends to be widespread concern about what this assumption means for women and girls - ranging from immediate practical worries (such as feeling uncomfortable in a communal shower at a sports facility) to a lot more fundamental issues like the fact that legal protections for women become essentially meaningless if anyone at all can essentially obtain them and concern at the reinforcement of gender stereotypes that are harmful to women and girls.

Nothing about this implies being 'against' transgender people. I don't think I've seen anybody on here ever argue that they shouldn't be afforded the same rights and respect as any other individual. I'd be willing to wager that a majority of posters would or could be convinced to support some type of additional legal protection for transgender people to address particular issues. People are merely arguing that this must not happen at the expense of women's rights!

And, of course, many women are afraid of the response they often get when pointing these things out. I'd explain, but as it turns out, some matters really are best left to a man ... see attached.

I'm not sure whether to classify your opening post as goady or sealioning, MagicSweets. But I'll proceed as if you are posting in good faith.

I'll answer in two parts:

"It seems to be a thing that the majority of feminists on here are against transgender people."
I'd love to know how you arrived at this conclusion. I (and IMO the majority of posters here) are not against transgender PEOPLE. We are, however, against transgender IDEOLOGY, which is being pushed by activists who, again IMO, couldn't give a shit about transgender people. This ideology claims gender identity should override biological sex, and is frankly just misogyny in lipstick.

"I'm just curious if you can be a feminist and completely accept transgender individuals."
Of course you can. What an odd question. But you do those transgender individuals a grave disservice if you pretend that they have changed sex, regardless of what hormones and surgery they have put themselves through. Would you nod along with an anorexic saying she's fat? No of course you wouldn't.

I completely accept a transgender individual as a transgender individual. I do not accept that their biological sex has changed. I find that only the activists make this preposterous claim, the individuals are well aware of reality.

I'm never totally accepting of any individual whom I don't know. So the answer is no.

I'm a radical feminist. Or feminazi, because wanting the liberation of women is just like invading Poland. (I was banned for two weeks for saying this on CiF, Guardian years ago).

I support transsexuals and welcome TruScum, and I agree with her views on this:

I am very much against the new umbrella term of 'transgender' which puts me (someone who has gone through years of therapy, surgery and mental torment due to a mental disorder) in to the same category as some of the disgusting misogynistic perverts now protected by that term.

And yes, welcome, TruScum, although your choice of name makes me

It made me upset at first too when I was first called it. It did for quite a while.

But now, It's kind of stuck. A shitty badge of honour that at least does it's job as a word, and manages to define me as apart from those awful people.

Funnily enough I've never been abused by a woman. Plenty or men and this new wave of 'transgender' people have though.

It's almost hysterical hearing a young man, who has just popped a dress and some lippy on, tell me that I just don't understand what he has gone through (i.e. nothing, no surgery, no mental illness, nada) and how I need to 'move over and die'.

All because I pointed out he was speaking more like someone who despised women than someone who wanted desperately to 'be one'.

'Gender Identity' is, at best, a wholly subjective internal feeling, impossible to prove or legislate for.

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2223307/transgender-primark-checkout-girl-wins-50k-compo-over-toilet-humiliation/

From the other thread, the judge "blasted Primark, ruling that Ms de Souza suffered direct discrimination and harassment due to her sexual identity."

Sexual identity. Surely this is not even actual law. Why is Primark not fighting this. There is no such thing under the law as "sexual identity", is there? Are Primark too scared of the publicity of fighting this further?

Welcome from me too, TruScum!

It was a transsexual friend of mine who sent me to Mumsnet. And who finally, after much nagging, got me to #peaktrans.

I think most of us here know that it is an ideology we are objecting to and an activist movement that has been hijacked by homophobes and misogynists. Not individuals.

I hope you stick around and keep posting. The wider the community that is critical of the ideology, the better.

I am a feminist.

I completely accept trans individuals, in fact there are some trans individuals I love and care for deeply.

I post on here (although, not as often as I used to because it makes me a bit sweary)

I don't know anyone who is "against" or hates trans individuals, in fact, most of the women I know who question gender are really worried about what effect the changes to the GRA will have on their trans friends.

The vast majority of the more bonkers "trans-activism" seems to be coming from a group of viciously misogynistic straight white men who appear to be really enjoying the fact that every bloody feminist conversation can now be easily derailed by the simple expedient of asking "what about the trans".

A case in point: There have been people asking why women are assuming the gender of the women and girls aid workers have abused in countries where there have been natural disasters, such as Haiti. Women are not being allowed to discuss the ramifications for women and girls in those countries, because conversations are constantly derailed by people asking irrelevant questions.

It's really frustrating how many people think we hate transgender people when that's not the issue at all! I am so grateful to all the fabulous feminists on here who keep calmly explaining again and again what the real issues are and why we are angry.

It seems to be a thing that the majority of feminists on here are against transgender people. I'm just curious if you can be a feminist and completely accept transgender individuals.

Hopefully you have been re-educated.

As we have been saying time and again for what seems an absolute age - the issue is not your 'genuine trans' people.

As so eloquently explained by TruScum earlier in the thread.

I cannot completely accept self-identifying transgender individuals who have a penis and testicles and have not had any hormone therapy or surgery and do not intend to have any, yet describe themselves as lesbians. I think the correct word for them is - 'men'.

How would a man knows how a woman who prefers women feels like? Gawd!

Welcome Truscum 💗💖 and what they all said.

A shitty badge of honour that at least does it's job as a word, and manages to define me as apart from those awful people

Hi Truscum. for you, it sounds like a nightmare.

You don't have to define yourself as apart from, or in relation to, TRAs here. You're among friends.

All because I pointed out he was speaking more like someone who despised women than someone who wanted desperately to 'be one'.

This is the crux of it. Too many of the 'trans community' are really coming across as if they (or do) despise women, overtly or subtly. Some may even be unconscious (due to the prevailing narcissism).

Therefore of course women and feminists are going to be riled. Had enough of that shit for many centuries as it is. And of course we're supportive of trans without that rubbish.

(Interestingly I read an article that explained that 99% of human history was matriarchal, only this last 1% has been patriarchal and woman hating.)

Welcome truScum glad you felt able to post. The way things are going anyone can say I’m a
Woman and all that allows them access too.

I’m a disabled person I receive care from a care agency. At present personal care is protect characteristic under equality law. I’m worried that I’m future any man who looks 100% like a man not had any surgery or hormones can just come
And do pesonal care and if have no
Choice at all. Their feelings before mine. How is that fair?

Sometimes it doesn’t matter who you share space with but they are times when it really does matter and those rights shouldn’t be taken away without question.

If prison service thing I can share cell with fully male then why would they be bothered about a male washing and dressing me?

I am as accepting of trans women as I am of anyone else. Until someone behaves badly to me, than I accept them. I will use their preferred pronouns, and avoid talking about subjects that make them uncomfortable.

I will not believe they are biologically a woman, or accept them in the place of a woman, or in a place set aside for vulnerable women to feel safe.

I have a couple of normal ordinary transwomen in my circle of acquaintances- former colleagues, friend of a friend kind of thing. My issues with them are issues you’d have with any acquaintance - things you enjoy about knowing a person, things you brush over. Normal friendship.

But I am very angry about the misogynistic transACTIVISTS - by which I include activists who aren’t trans, but act as bully boys (it’s usually boys) against women. The Owen Joneses of this world. The ones who chant the bollocks stuff like “Transwomen are women #NoDebate”