Ok so someone educate me about neo vaginas **Title edited by MNHQ at the OP's request**

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Because lot of people on twitter appear to think that women piss out of their vaginas.

So with that particular piece of 'advanced biology', what happens with a newly constructed vagina?

And er. maybe some will be disappointed with the plumbing?

In a very small minority of women, the urethral opening is just inside the vagina, but in the vast majority it is in front of the vaginal opening. (I don't know whether the urethral opening inside the vagina is the female equivalent of hypospadias in men, where the urethra opens somewhere on the shaft of the penis instead of the end - any anatomists out there who know?)

Apologies for my total biological ignorance here, but I'm confused about how post operative trans women can climax. So they have the tip of the penis where the clitoris would be, but the female orgasm involves the contraction of all kinds of internal muscles that presumably they don't have?

Obviously they won't be ejaculating because all that kit will have been removed, so how is it a climax? And isn't it always sore anyway from all that dilation? I'm curious about this but really don't want to google it...

TinselAngel

Probably TMI, but I have read that they have to 'stab' (?) quite forcefully at the tip which has become their clitoris to get a sensation.

It obviously won't work the same as a clitoris, as it half the number of nerve endings.

I don't know where scare tissue comes in though.

@Datun They have to punch themselves in the fanjo?

I'm serious, at school we were taught the baby grows in a womb yet the womb has never been mentioned to me in pregnancy. It only occurred to me the other day. Is it old terminology?

The urethra, again, I assumed the whole thing was my vagina and it was on the wall on the way in.

I'm now a bit embarrassed at my stupidity, I'm not trolling nor am I a total idiot. I just didn't know. 1990s biology lessons have a lot to answer for!

Grey, don't be embarrassed. You're certainly far from the first woman I've known who didn't know where the urethral opening was. It's appalling that women are not taught properly about their own bodies in school.

(And yes, I suppose "womb" is a little archaic - hence that ghastly line in "Oh come, all ye faithfull", "Lo, he abhors not the virgin's womb..." Abhors? Fucking abhors? If ever one needed convincing that Christianity is hideously misogynistic, that line is it.... But I digress).

TinselAngel

@Datun They have to punch themselves in the fanjo? shock

I don't think it's punching! I had an image of them having to use a lot of elbow grease, because the part was smaller and didn't have the surface area that it did before.

But, to be honest, that was only one description. They are fairly thin on the ground.

I completely dismissed the description from the transwoman who had an orgasm as they came round from the anaesthetic and the ones where they are wildly thrashing about on the bed in a delirious and practically divine state of ecstasy.

Most of them say it takes an awful long time to learn to orgasm. And a lot of effort. It can be done, but it's not easy.

*Grown women can't get a hysterectomy - or HRT - without a fight as they are told it's a big decision, they might change their mind, nobody knows the long term effects etc. Why are children allowed to lose their reproductive ability and be effectively castrated?

Unfucking believable, isn't it? I suffered the pain of endometriosis to the extent of passing out, for nearly 15yrs. I pleaded for a hysterectomy as I didn't want children (the kids I discuss in other threads are long term fostered nephews and niece), FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS they made me wait, in case I changed my mind about children. I told them I was taking too many painkillers because of the pain and was driven to having suicidal thoughts because of the impact it was having on my life. It made not one fucking bit of difference. Twice I was put on prostop (sp?), which has caused osteoporosis. I finally told them I was going to lodge a formal complaint because they were refusing to treat me. I was 37 fucking years of age and those bastards were telling me I didn't know my own mind. P.S. When they opened me up my tubes were a mess and they had to scrap the endometriosis off my bowel. I honestly think that's why I have IBS now.

10yrs later and we are being told CHILDREN are mature enough to have life aultering treatment. Awful. Absolutely heartbreaking.

I'd love to hear from women now, who want/need hysterectomies due to endometriosis and other complications and know if they're being listened to. If not, maybe they should say they want to become a man.

This particular transwoman likes to talk about their anatomy quite a lot.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.refinery29.uk/amp/transgender-vagina-surgery

My 40 year old friend thought that you'd peed out of your vagina and didn't realise women had three holes and men had two. She was visiting me in hospital and thought the catheter was inserted into the vagina, she was aghast when I explained it to her - it's not uncommon for women to be ignorant of their anatomy.

It's very common for both men and women to think that women urinate from the vagina. I might have thought that myself if I hadn't been taught about it during my nursing training. To be fair, the urethral opening can be quite hard to find.

Datun - sometimes I click on his articles to see how long it is before he mentions something stomach churningly inappropriate. An piece on ' being alone at Christmas ' cited one of the downsides as not being given 'knickers that barely cover the vagina'. Strange visual image but classic Juno (don't mention agp).

I’m gong to descend into horrors on this thread. And now ask a vastly inappropriate question.

TIFs having penile surgery... Um, would it not be more satisfying for both participants if a prosthetic that could stimulate each was used? A female that goes through this surgery to create what sounds like a barely functional organ (if you have to pump it, it’s basically a fake anyway) that offers barely any pleasure.... I’m baffled.

Although I have no idea how it feels to really want a penis, admittedly. But this strikes me as a very severe dysphoria, while males having vaginoplasty I can still ascribe to fetishists.

I’m properly wide-eyed at this.

I have been following these threads and trying to establish my mindset...I'm sure I would get called Terfy McTerf were I to make it known that while I will respect chosen pronouns and people's right to live as they wish, I have concerns about the GRA, transing children and the lack of debate.

However, this is the first time I have felt properly heartbroken that the lie of new genitals, at the expense of one of the greatest sensations there is, is being sold to vulnerable people (dysphoric young people especially). It's like when I read about FGM.

maid I found this blog (and others by purple sage fem) very enlightening about women wanting a penis.
purplesagefem.wordpress.com/2015/07/22/on-lesbian-lust-and-identifying-as-male/

I think it might help to talk more about female sexuality and sex.

Oh and this is the one I actually meant to link.
I love her, so clever and insightful
purplesagefem.wordpress.com/2016/07/17/patriarchy-and-female-sexuality-part-2/

One has to wonder what the male partners of gay transmen (aka hetero sex between bio male and female) make of the act of their partner pumping saline into a constructed penis.

Not that many transmen are sexually attracted to men, but some are. I'm thinking of that mother->transman+ son->trans girl family in the states. I wonder if the mother has plans to undergo the surgery, and how happy the father is to discover he's now gay...

.

It's like when I read about FGM.

Any of the FTM surgery here would fall squarely into this definition of the UK criminal offence of Femal Genital Mutilation (FGM)
A person is guilty of an offence if he excises, infibulates or otherwise mutilates the whole or any part of a girl’s labia majora, labia minora or clitoris.

Except it it falls into one of these exceptions

(a)a surgical operation on a girl which is necessary for her physical or mental health, or
(b)a surgical operation on a girl who is in any stage of labour, or has just given birth, for purposes connected with the labour or birth.

Interested to understand if FTM bottom surgery was requested for cosmetic reasons rather than medical necessity, if it would then fall under the criminal FGM offence

YY. I think even a clitoral piercing technically counts as FGM.

I'll be going over female anatomy with my DD tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've explained the basics but it's time for a refresher, I think.

QuentinSummers

That's an interesting link. I can actually completely understand the desire to not just be, let's call it the aggressor, in sex, but actually to penetrate. With an organ. There is something very dominant about it. And I can easily see the appeal.

What I can't possibly understand is it troubling you to the extent you have surgery. Especially as, from what I can tell, it all but ruins your sex life. It's delusional.

And I agree. More talk about the clitoris and its, in my opinion, huge supremacy as a sexual organ, is probably on the cards.

Thanks for the links.

I remember a dream I once had. It was years ago but uniquely unusual and I can still recall the feeling.

I had a penis and I was penetrating a female (unknown). I recall the thrusting, and feeling frustrated that her bum (lifted on my thighs) was stopping me further. I was turned on immensely by this strange activity.

(Sexually explicit and adventurous dreams are routine for me, so I didn’t dwell on it. But I don’t think there’s ever been another time I’ve dreamt of having a penis...)

I can only wonder what would happen if a young girl vocalised such a dream these days.

And just to remove any suggestion that I’m a weirdo, I have also dreamt, again years ago, that I was a golf ball getting hit into a hole.

That’s not weird, right?

It doesn't surprise me at all that a woman is completely ignorant about her own body. We're barely taught about ourselves and how amazing vaginas are.

Reading descriptions of the surgeries performed as they're described here makes me go absolutely cold. It's mutilation, plain and simple.