Feeling sad & weary that feminists & trans women are constantly pitted against one another?

[SmiledWithTheRisingSun]

That's it really.

Instinctively I feel very protective of feminism and all that those incredibly brave women before us achieved. Thanks Nanna 💛

I totally support the idea of protecting women only spaces and don't obviously want a bunch of women-hating rapists in female prisons etc

BUT... surely there's a happy medium to be found ladies?!

Surely there must be reasonable people in the trans community who understand the need to protect all that feminism has achieved?

The same way that I'm a white middle aged woman who doesn't feel the need to demand entrance to a black feminist group. I can support their right to exist without being undermined by it.

What to we call these feminist / trans sympathisers? Please enlighten me wise MNERS.

Love from,
A middle aged feminist who wishes you all peace and love X

I'm not sure I even understand the Twitter thread in that link

OP I'm wondering what you feel after reading this MN thread.

Wow that twitter feed. This thread has been an extremely enlightening read thank you. I’m wondering how many will read it as it’s rather hidden in feminist chat. I don’t really understand why women’s rights, access to women’s spaces etc is purely a feminist issue and why this discussion isn’t on a more mainstream thread such as AIBU. It’s really difficult to understand perfectly’s point of view given datuns and others very well reasoned arguments. Again, thank you. It’s is something I’m discussing with my daughters and they with their friends. Never ‘nodebate’. I also wonder if the OP will ever return with links to the same post and the responses received on trans activists sites?

I am genuinely baffled as to why the politicians are going along with this shit, can they really be unaware of the threats that have been made? There must be something in it for them but what exactly?

I live in a rural area and I'm pretty sure that most people here are unaware of the GRA and what it would mean for women. My husband didn't know anything about it and was horrified when I told him.

perfectlywretched

You might want to Google the questions asked of Bex Stinson at Stonewall. About lesbian erasure. She has resolutely refused to answer them.

She also refused to condemn the violence at speakers corner.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=Bex+Stinson&submit=Search

Gendertrender is a site run by a lesbian.

I still don't think that kind of thinking would ever gain momentum or receive support from the rest of the LGBT community or society.

The problem is firstly that T has nothing to do with LGB (as they are about sexuality, T is about identity) and secondly that LGBTQIA++++ orgs seem to represent T over everyone else, with an occasional nod to the G. Lesbians are ignored other than to point out that they are transphobic vagina fetishists who are probably actually men, and the Bs have always been ignored.

Ruth Hunt also refused to answer questions about the treatment of lesbians by the translobby. And only seems to care about trans these days. I guess thats where the cash is. Follow the money, fuck supporting your community eh

perfectly I am pleased you've stuck around to disagree with us - it's blimmin rare.

I'd recommend you to Sister Outrider on this general theme: sisteroutrider.wordpress.com/2017/09/15/punch-a-terf-rhetoric-encourages-violence-against-women/

sisteroutrider.wordpress.com/2017/07/01/the-vanishing-point-a-reflection-upon-lesbian-erasure/

Show me a thread like that with more than 100 likes or retweets and I will rethink my position and agree there is something to worry about

In the same way as we say to the men that come on here asking for help in understanding women/s issues, why cant you do your own research? This sort of hate is all over twitter, it takes literally seconds to find it. It is in your interests as a woman to do some proper research surely?

Not rtft has anyone mentioned the ‘cotton ceiling’ yet? Makes me sick. If you identify as a woman you would want to have lady bits, that’s the whole point. Anything else is just woman-facing & used to undermine women. Honestly ‘lady-penis’ should not be a thing.

Pencils thanks for sharing that Twitter thread, I wonder how much Pink News etc are aware of threads like that

Pink News is a tabloid aimed at men. It's like the Sun for gay men. Don't expect any intelligent analysis from them. They hate women as much as the Sun but instead of going 'whooar!' they go 'eewww!'

... and how frequent they are.

All the fucking time. This is constant and has been growing in volume and intensity for about 10 years now.

I still don't think that kind of thinking would ever gain momentum or receive support from the rest of the LGBT community or society.

I find it extremely strange that you, who have said you are a lesbian, are not more bothered by this hate speech. I find it totally extraordinary that you are spending your time telling us off for not being kind enough because we won't say men are women but when people tweet actual, no holds barred hatred towards lesbians you have nothing to say but NATWALT ('Not All Trans Women Are Like That').

Show me a thread like that with more than 100 likes or retweets and I will rethink my position and agree there is something to worry about.

No I won't dance to your tune. Stop with your silly demands. Last time it was 'everybody say after me the many ways you don't hate trans women then I will consider whether your opinions are valid' We have more important things to do than jump through your hoops.

Perfectly, I know you’ve had a lot of questions directed at you on this thread so maybe you missed it, but I’d be interested as to your thoughts on what I posted in response to you at 16.31.

The law is going to redefine what woman means, this is the main issue for me.

I fully support the rights of people to feel safe. Many transsexuals have been accessing women’s places for years, such as toilets, and I think most women do not have an issue with this (particularly as we understand the threat of male violence which trans people are also at risk of).

What is changing, and threatening women’s spaces, is forcing through a law that legally recognises trans women (who often have no intention to undergo a transition) to be recognised as a woman. It belittles the struggles of both women and of people affected by a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Trans women are trans women and women are women – it is simply not possible to change sex, ever. That does not mean that transgender people should not have rights and a protected status but this is the wrong way of doing it. It is fucking insane.

Okay, I went off to research Twitter and this was the first post I discovered. Over 700 likes.
How many of you find this funny? And agree with it?
Anlaf Sparkles Pencils is this what you stand for?

I'll keep looking.

Isn’t that the tweet that was purported come from Venice Allan? It’s absolute garbage.

You honestly think Venice Allan pulled down the pants of child.

Snort.

perfectlywretched

That post is photoshopped. Its been deleted from Twitter, so you must have saved a copy.
Thats why you didnt link to it.

Can you link to that rather than screenshot?

Given that mumsnet appears to be the bête noire of transactivists everywhere. The only things they could come up with was that fake one and one from two years ago taken out of context.

Despite, the numerous threads about the issue on here.

@lostplot, I think most politicians are unaware of the very basic facts of the GRA.

You mention living rurally. We are in London, working in large organisations etc and though I don't dare mention it at work, it's been me alerting my friends and family to the issue so far. The first friend had no idea why I was worried and took the attitude that "we can't legislate on the basis that some men might be violent".

I think it's generally seen as a very niche issue, which is a problem because one violent man will ruin the lives of many.

perfectlywretched

You are not operating in good faith.

That is a fake tweet made by a trans activist whose twitter was then closed down.

This fake one retweeted by a TRA account?

could you give context/link to the thread - i can't really make sense of that in isolation

So it was posted in this thread, here's Jacky Holyoake's response:

twitter.com/JackyHolyoake/status/941546318870319104 Yes .. it is a fake tweet made as a picture by a very unpleasant Trans Activist in USA. It happened earlier this year and I reported it to Twitter as a fake tweet which Twitter checked and agreed and shut down the account of the guy who made it

Interesting that tweet was the first thing you found.

Interesting that tweet was the first thing you found

Solid work, for someone taking their first ever look at Twitter.

this was the first post I discovered

BS