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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Trans Widows escape committee

972 replies

TinselAngel · 01/12/2017 15:55

This is a second attempt to start a thread for women who have been, or are still in unhappy relationships with Trans partners.

Having got out of a marriage to a man who transitioned shortly after we split, it would be good to be able to support others in a similar situation.

I know there's a few of you out there?

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EmilyHowardsWife · 29/12/2018 09:51

Quick update, just venting really. No need for anyone to reply.
Back home and not abroad anymore, which is good (although not really my choice because of children's education).
AGP partner is with me but has had a total breakdown, very suicidal, including actively planning and is now under mental health care.
He is not sexual at all and is severally depressed, doesn't even get out of bed or talk or anything really.
Has said it's over money and not gender issues. But who knows.

We are very lucky in that we don't have money issues, but he is so paranoid. Cannot go into details as it will out me, but he really believes he is going to prison, even though he has done nothing wrong. But if anyone has dealings with anxiety and paranoia, will know that no explaining he is wrong gets through.
The horrible part is that it all feels like another performance to me, rather than "woman" personality, he has now adopted "depressive" personality and is getting everyone to run around and look after him. To the point a health care professional said I need to bath him, like a toddler, get towels ready, etc.

The more I see the Trans movement on line and in real life the more I'm convinced, it's a symptom of some other quite big mental health issue. Possible manic depression, or maybe extreme personality disorders.

Anyway, just updating so I can see where I am at this point in time.

Love and strength to all.

TinselAngel · 02/01/2019 11:28

Thanks for checking in Bird and Emily, I've been wondering how you both are.

I'm glad things are more normal for you this year Bird. My ex is all over the internet being stunning and brave, but I manage to avoid it these days.

Oh and hurrah for good old fashioned vanilla rumpy pumpy!

Emily, I'm glad you're back in the UK as it gives you more options. I'm sorry to hear about your husband's "breakdown", it makes it more difficult for you to leave without looking/ feeling bad.

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Oldermum156 · 03/01/2019 12:03

Hi, I was sent here from elsewhere by someone who knows about my situation. I feel it is a little different from some of you. I am bi and sort of knew going into it all, but my spouse didn't fully transition until a few years into our relationship. I was very swept up by all the extremist logic then. I used to be much easier to convince of things when I was young because my mental health and self esteem were garbage.
Now I look back and see how all my objections were shouted down along the way and how I was gaslit every time I questioned anything about trans politics, like saying women are in any way different from trans women. In the beginning were terrible tantrums, screaming and throwing self on the mattress kicking and crying if I disagreed. I soon learned not to.
Like many others here, my partner is in a high paid IT profession. I am unemployed and have been since I was laid off in 2008. We own a house together and my son is in college. Leaving feels impossible - I was a homeless youth and being impoverished again terrifies me. I just want people to talk to.

TinselAngel · 03/01/2019 17:11

Hi @Oldermum156 , I'm glad you've found us.

It would be fascinating to hear more of your story- I don't think being bisexual would make the situation very much easier. You say you kind of knew- I'm guessing you didn't know the full extent of it.

How did things go for you post his transition? What is your relationship like now? Not good presumably as you seem to be thinking of leaving.

As for being penniless- you own half a house- are you married as that will make a difference? Could you get back into work or are there other factors that prevent that? You should definitely get some legal advice to see where you would stand financially as it will probably not be as bad as you fear. Thanks

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Oldermum156 · 03/01/2019 18:51

Well it's a very long story and I don't want to talk too much or offend anyone! But I want to be truthful!
We have been together 15 years. I have had a hard life. I was badly abused as a child and have C-PTSD. I left home early and ended up being groomed into the BDSM-kink-poly world, I believed everything they told me about myself, that I primarily existed as a submissive sexual being and that was where I got my worth.
I was depressed and anxious a lot but blamed that on my terrible upbringing, which admittedly didn't help. I had a lot of abusive relationships in this but I always thought it was accidental or even that I was attracted to abusive men, not that the scene was just full of them and that it was a playground for them to abuse women.

It was in this context we got together. I was busy agreeing with everything everyone told me, so nothing he said initially about crossdressing and feeling like he might be trans bothered me at first. I was bi anyway so why should I care, right?
But I was a feminist and he would get super angry about being denied access to Mich Women's Fest - a place we never planned to go anyway, we live no where near there. And I was like of course you wouldn't be able to go and that is their right, women born women have a right to define their own spaces. OMG the drama and anger. "They are all bigots" no matter what kind of example of a woman's only space I brought up, even a rape crisis center where women had been abused by men. They just needed to get over their fear of penis, those bigots (he has never had surgery nor does he intend to).

I didn't know what to say to all of this. Sometimes we would have conversations about this that would end with him screaming, throwing himself on the bed and kicking and crying with a red face like a toddler but this is a grown man we are talking about. Eventually it got so scary and obviously we weren't going to agree and I said look we cannot have conversations about this anymore and he said fine. So we just don't talk about it directly. That was in, like, 2007.

Since then we have had some conversations about it, of course. He went to a therapist and was approved as a woman without having anything done, he doesn't even take hormones! He just shaves and wears makeup and dresses. He also has some sort of other mental issues, among them clearly hypochondria, which is a huge strain sometimes. He has never actually been seriously ill but imagines constantly that he has weird illnesses. He has begun to see he trans community has gone too far mainly because he did not join them in some woman-bashing online mob event one day and he was called truscum or tucute or something like that and kicked out of an online trans community he was in, which is ludicrous, but it at least half "woke" him to how extremist they are all becoming and how it isn't about acceptance anymore. So we can talk about how crazy the "kids" are about it but he still accepts all the basic principles.

He is bisexual but I think like 75% gay. I think truly he would prefer to be with a man over me which is something that makes this different from a lot of the guys I hear about. That is a different kind, Bailey identified 2 basic types of transsexuals and he is the second kind, I think they are less common. He was sleeping with other men for a while but I eventually complained enough that he has stopped.

This is weirdly exhausting to write.

I don't want to break up, I don't want to move, I like our house. I just want somewhere to be honest. idk

Italiangreyhound · 03/01/2019 22:06

birdbandit I'm glad you have met a nice guy. Whatever it turns out to be, you certainly deserve some good attention.

"So mine is now giving after dinner speeches about his journey. I'm tired of having my arm grabbed by people who have sat through his story, they wide eyed, tell me what he's saying/doing."

I really hope you tell these people you know all about your ex and don't need to hear it. Angry

Italiangreyhound · 03/01/2019 22:40

EmilyHowardsWife "No need for anyone to reply.
Back home and not abroad anymore, which is good ..."

That's brilliant. I have to comment! Glad you are back home.

"The more I see the Trans movement on line and in real life the more I'm convinced, it's a symptom of some other quite big mental health issue. Possible manic depression, or maybe extreme personality disorders."

I ha e been reading in relationships a thread about living with an Aspergers husband.

As you may remember my dh is not trans or Aspergers but I like to keep up to date with Aspergers info as my child was diagnosed last year.

The Aspergers husband threas has lots of examples of very difficult behavior from the partners, not all make a bit mostly males/husbsnds. It just reminds me that it doesn't matter why the partner is producing the very challenging brhsviour but only if you can handle it/still love them enough to want to stay.

If someone has s brain tumour and produced violent behaviour you might say, I still care about this person but I can't put myself or the kids on harms way. Even though I know the behavior is due to xyz. I do think that applies here.

Italiangreyhound · 03/01/2019 22:42

Oldermum156 that all sounds very tough.

Can I ask if you have had counselling for the trauma? Please do access counselling.

You say you do not work, can I ask how old you are?

Oldermum156 · 03/01/2019 23:33

Ihave had counseling. I tried to talk about the spouse situation but I know that here if you say anything less than totally supportive of your trans partner you are told to adjust your own feelings, so I only very carefully began to address that topic and it was as I feared so I didn't bring it up again and just acted like I was completely fine with it.
We go to a a well-known religious denomination and everyone there is so accepting of trans issues that when we began going the secretary who emailed us announces her "preferred pronouns" without even being asked, implying we should announce ourselves with them too.
It wouldn't only be my partner and home I lost if I divorced, but my religious community and most of my friends, for being a "transphobe bigot". I am expected by everyone around me to understand. The only people it seems who don't go along with this are Extremist religious Trump people and I am not like that. It is like everyone has gone completely mad.

TinselAngel · 04/01/2019 00:11

Older,coincidentally I started reading Lundy Bancroft "Why does he do that" today, as it's so often recommended on Mumsnet to people in abusive relationships.

A line that jumped out at me because of my own experiences, but I think is also something you should consider is as follows:

"You deserve to have your life be about you: you are worth it."

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Italiangreyhound · 04/01/2019 00:20

Oldermum156 can I ask if you are in the USA or UK or elsewhere? You do not need to say.

You mention a 'well-known religious denomination'. I'm a Christian and have seen the whole same sex marriage/equal marriage debate of the last few years. I found myself firmly on the pro gay marriage side at a time we were attending a very small, very traditional evangelical church. We did leave after a while and the main reason was there were no other kids for our young kids to go to Sunday school with, but another big reason was the fact that they were anti women in leadership (had not realized when we joined them!) and also anti same sex/equal marriage.

Anyway, just wanted to explain the other side, then I got onto a forum which was Christian and very pro gay marriage, gay rights, and over time very pro trans rights. In the end I found it too hard because I am very pro lesbian rights (I'm not a lesbian either!) and the whole trans thing can feel very anti-lesbian rights!

Anyway, I am twittering, as a person of faith I just wanted to say my experience has been that religious groups (Christian) in the UK can be very varied in their views about all aspects of 'LGBT'.

But you should still be able to break up a marriage if it is right, no matter how your partner identities.

TinselAngel · 04/01/2019 00:31

Also Older, have you read "Sex Changes" by Trans Widow, Christine Benvenuto? Her experience with therapy and religion (liberal US Jewish) was similar to yours. She got through it all and built a new life. I think you'd find it helpful.

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Italiangreyhound · 04/01/2019 00:57

Tinsel I am having a read about Christine Benvenuto.

Oldermum156 · 04/01/2019 11:42

No I go to a reform Jewish congregation. I would prefer conservative but there isn't one in my town. Also if it isn't explicitly trans accepting they won't go.
I am early middle age to answer someone else's question.
I have read articles by her and am very sympathetic. I would like to have the book but I am afraid my spouse would find it and pitch a fit.

TinselAngel · 04/01/2019 12:10

Are you frightened of him?

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Italiangreyhound · 04/01/2019 13:41

Oldermum156 as far as I am aware in UK law you don't need a reason to divorce, just irreconcilable differences. If you wanted to leave him you would not need to make it about him bring trans.

Does he work? Are you 'well off'? Could you siggest starting a company and work I h on it do if you do ever seperate you have skills and income?

Whatever the reason for your husband's I reasonable behaviour (like pitching a for if hi buy the 'wrong' kind of book) it doesn't excuse that behaviour or make it ok.

Good luck to you with whatever you do Flowers

Italiangreyhound · 04/01/2019 13:43

and work I h on it do
and work in it do

And unreasonable not I reasonable.

Sorry on phone.

Oldermum156 · 04/01/2019 15:15

tinsel angel - I am only frightened when i disagree on trans issues, I guess. as long as I go along with it he is very nice the rest of the time. It is weird because I don't tend to think of myself as abused. its like the elephant in the room as I saw someone post about a different topic somewhere else today.

Today's transness - some of you may have seen this thing going around about "researchers" suddenly discovering ancient Mesopotamian cultures were filled to he brim with happy trans people. Of course a mutual friend sent this info to her and she is avidly reading it. The "researchers" who came up with this is ONE and only one art historian - not an archaeology or ancient history expert. I actually am a historian and this is one of my special areas of knowledge! The entire thing is bunk, it is completely untrue. They have twisted themselves into believing some unidentified skeletons were "trans" because they have vaguely non gender specific items buried with them. There can't possibly be any other reason for them being buried with these objects! Never mind there is written evidence including law from this time and nothing written about sex changing.

TinselAngel · 04/01/2019 15:25

I think many victims of abuse don't see themselves as that until they have been out of the situation for a while and are able to get some perspective on what is normal and healthy in a relationship. You are being controlled.

I bet however accepting you are of the "transness", it's never quite enough?

Is your partner "out" as trans, despite not having any hormones or surgery? (Which of course in the olden days was cross dressing).

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TinselAngel · 04/01/2019 15:28

Oh and it's another characteristic of controlling men, that however much you know (eg being an actual historian), you never know as much as they do!

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Oldermum156 · 04/01/2019 15:56

Oh yes. Everyone is very accepting. I would be completely ostracized if I said anything. I would be the monster.

TinselAngel · 04/01/2019 16:04

Well in that case they're not really your friends.

You might be surprised, I didn't lose any friends when I left my ex.

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FWRLurker · 04/01/2019 16:29

"It wouldn't only be my partner and home I lost if I divorced, but my religious community and most of my friends, for being a "transphobe bigot". I am expected by everyone around me to understand. The only people it seems who don't go along with this are Extremist religious Trump people and I am not like that. It is like everyone has gone completely mad."

I know exactly how you feel. However I would suggest that it is not as desperate as you think. If you really have to, you should be able to leverage their desire to be accepting against them ostracising you. Don't say you are leaving because your partner is trans. Say you are leaving because you are straight-identified and can't remain in a relationship with a woman.

If they know you were bi in the past say you thought you were, but you were wrong and that unfortunately your partner transitioning made this obvious. Most women in heterosexual relationships with late transitioning trans women leave.

In the wokest of circles, you can bring it back to Consent is Magic (I'm sure you've heard a lot of this having come from kink circles). It's completely understandable to end a relationship begun under false pretenses and without your consent.

Italiangreyhound · 04/01/2019 17:05

It's completely understandable to end a relationship for any reason. If you belong to a more traditional denomination, of any religion, then divorce may be more frowned on, of course.

But you don't need a big reason, you just need to now your life would better out of the relationship than in it.

But it does sound like you are resigned to your life and accepting of it.

Pythagonal · 04/01/2019 20:58

I would like to have the book but I am afraid my spouse would find it and pitch a fit.

Oldermum, it's available on Kindle. Would that be an option for you?

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