Lily Madigan, TIM, elected Labour women's officer

[jMillicentFawcett]

Lily is 19. Lily was instrumental in the hate campaign against Anne Ruzylo which resulted in her standing down.

You have to be a woman to be women’s officer but ‘The Labour councillor said that “lived experience as a woman” should be considered an advantage — but not a prerequisite — for the role of women’s officer.’

Lily could also have gone for the LGBT officer role but they didn’t want that. No, they wanted to show women that they can shit all over them and we will applaud them for doing it.

I’m absolutely furious about this ( as you can probably tell)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8?shareToken=472df23aa6315582a4f6558d7a1be5ba

It's telling that The Times couldn't get a female Labour MP to comment for that article. The Jo Cox programme is about future leaders. They really have no opinion or they too feel cowed ?

I’d imagine they feel cowed.

That times article is excellent.
How sad that the second trans woman felt she had to be anonymous and no woman would comment, surely that just says it all.

Tris medway is a numpty. And the “I believe she is a woman” They have actually single handed redefined “woman”. Bravo Kristina, the fact that transwomen are now scared to say say anything as well is just ridiculous. Feel like everyones being held hostage by a bunch of hysterical, emotionally manipulative, violent men.

Thanks @Datun, that post was really informartive.

I'm glad about that Times article. I do think that moderate (sane) trans voices are being drowned out. Make no mistake about it, TRAs are an extremist group in nature which is why they have managed to get so much of a platform in recent years, because the media love it and the media are failing, in the same way as they have with the far right and Islamic extremists, to handle it responsibility. They, like other extremists, are happy to destroy the sensible argument and representative voices in the same field.

Are we surprised that a far left movement have done this at the same time? There is a blind spot by the left over it, in the same way that parts of the right have a blind spot to xenophobia and how they might encourage it. (Mentioned before but the excellent Nick Cohen has argued this before extensively and has written a book on the concept. Pitching to the left in this context, wouldn't be a bad call.)

I don't think it's a huge surprise to see it's the Times who have published this article. They are currently taking an editorial line which is generally roughly slight right of centre and pro-liberal. This also unfortunately plays to the far left accusation of the right being totally transphobic (it's not. It's authoritarianism v liberalism).

Your post Sentimentiallental sums up a lot to me. TRAs make out that anyone who isn't with them is a traitor and not interested in rights for trans people.

It's absolute nonsense. I often feel torn over it all because despite everything, why would I want my sibling to be at risk? Why would I want them to be discriminated against? Why would I want them to have fewer rights?

The thing is though that TRAs undermine this though, by obliterating those who are listening. There are many ways in which they are damaging the interests of trans.

They unfortunately, because they are cult like, are prepared and have an answer to those from within who are traitors which takes exactly the same form. It's personal and they work to discredit them by any means necessary. (Thus showing up exactly how much interest they have in looking after their own. They ostricise and isolate those voices.) And sensible Voices from the left won't raise their heads because of the left's own current political identity crisis. The label Blarite has many uses.

Ask, what TRAs want to talk about least. Why do they have a problem with science? Because they are extremists and it's an ideology where facts are dangerous and must not be established.

Trump, Corbyn, Farage, Isis, TRAs. All the same problem. All happening at the same time. All for the same reason.

Link them.

datun - the thing that really gets my goat about these "male lesbians" is that they have all maintained their sexual orientation through transition. They were straight men who became "lesbian women". They didn't change their sexual orientation but, all of a sudden, lesbians are supposed to change theirs? It's the epitome of male entitlement. And also, proof positive that orientation is sex, not gender, based. No power on earth will ever convince me that these "male lesbians" don't know that just as much as we do.

It really interested me today to see on the news a report about suicides in prisons. Apparently there are 2 a week. It's a huge problem.

Funny how no prisoners are saying, as a body, 'if you lock us up it's literal murder.' Or 'better out murdering and robbing people than being a dead man.' If they did, they'd be given short shrift for good reason. Yes suicide rates in prisons need attention. Prisons should be safe spaces with proper mental health provision. But it's not a reason to give that population what I'm sure they want given that would come at the expense of other people.

I love the idea of Datun on the train, quietly peak-transing random commuters...

Thank you for explaining the suicide stuff (and all your informative posts, actually). However, my question was more to do with the actual interaction between these supposedly suicidal trans people and psychiatric professionals. I know the worst offenders won't be anywhere near professionals, and indeed want to remove the gender dysphoria diagnosis altogether, but surely plenty of trans people still see professionals as part of their treatment? What I'm pondering is if most mental health professionals, despite being told from above to be affirmative only, are actually thinking "but this person is being manipulative". And if not, why not? And if so, why isn't there mass resistance from this sector? I know inidividuals are scared into silence, but the whole ethos (for want of a better word) of how suicide threats and often self-harm is viewed within NHS services would imply that a majority of professionals would see through manipulation straight away. I just can't get my head around it.

Sophocles wrote *'I wonder if the increasing visibility of trans issues over the last few years has had an impact on how men are experiencing autogynephilia? It used to be something very shameful, that I expect men hid as much as they could for most of their lives. Now it's something that you can "come out" with. It must change the expression of the paraphilia surely? So younger and younger men would be expressing it?'

Is autogynephilia a term for a 'sissy' fetish where men dress as women and are humiliated and dominated? For anyone that was embarrassed about that (and I have a friend who was) it must be empowering to identify as trans and to be supported by a vocal movement.

distaf
I wonder about that too, and if it does become accepted then would that affect the humiliation aspect?

Rya has a really good video about this where she describes her experiences of it.

Distaff i’m inclined to think its still a soucrce of shame (even though it shouldn’t be) for most. Mention autogyn on a trans thread also see how much hate there is for zucker and blanchard. Part of the reason i think they want a shorter transition period and psychologists to have a supportive stance is so they can avoid talking about it. You will also see the claim here that women have autogy (the study has been debunked so throughly its amazong to me anyone is still quoting it). I think the blanchard hypothesis clearly treats MTF as clearly male so they don’t like it. You can see how conflicted people are about it in the links below.

www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/145us1/results_of_the_survey_on_autogynephilia/

www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/4xp8nm/am_i_transgender_or_do_i_just_have_autogynephilia/

Autogynephilia is definitely becoming more acceptable, because it’s being glossed over to make it more marketable.

There have been two Guardian articles recently both from an obvious AGP.

Branding it as, among other things, gender busting, brave, in need of others’ empathy and harmless.

I believe the joke amongst the community is what’s the difference between a cross dresser and an autogynephile? The answer is two years.

I’m not sure of the actual difference, apart from the severity?

Ex wives who talk about it say it just increases, with a binge/purge element. And the increasing acceptability lends so much credence that the person themselves become consumed by their own legitimacy. Feeling more than comfortable to impose it on others as a right.

I have a problem with the fetish it in as much as it relies on a misogynistic view of women.

So the often repeated, ‘I don’t care what people do in their own homes’, part of it, still bothers me.

However that’s probably a different issue. If it could be confined to the privacy of one’s own home, then at least women don’t have to unwittingly participate.

I certainly don’t want to lend it any kind of general credibility or acceptability though. Way more problematic than just being a regular transwoman.

MissMoneyPlant

It’s a really difficult one. I’m sure many trans people are genuinely unhappy. But whether it’s because they are trans or otherwise, is probably the issue for a lot of HCPs.

Frankly, I’m not sure how a doctor would handle it. Narcissism is prevalent amongst a certain cohort of trans. And it’s painfully obvious when you’re being manipulated by a narcissist.

I imagine HCPs are in the same boat as anyone else. Only worse. They know the person is unhappy. They know suicide can used to manipulate.

It’s generally understood that transitioning can definitely alleviate symptoms of gender dysphoria. The problem arises in that the suicide rate doesn’t go down and the person still remains isolated and depressed.

So they may be fixing a part of the problem, that doesn’t really provide them with a solution.

The whole thing needs so much research and breaking down into its constituent parts. But as lobbyists try and shut down any research, it just becomes a vicious circle.

Also, many autogynephiles will not even have gender dysphoria. So they won’t be suicidal. But they might need to leverage suicide statistics to get what they want.

Sorry - that’s a bit of a brain dump. Because I haven’t got only one coherent explanation. I understand healthcare professionals are as worried as anyone else about their jobs, but I agree, it’s rather baffling that you hear so little.

Also the stigma of being seen as a perv with an erotic fixation (i dont think they are perverts just to be clear), i think its easier to say I’m a woman on the inside and its a feeling than to talk about autogyn and what that means about how your sexuality works which i think would make them targets for derision (obviously horrible) rather than noble geneder warriors.

Datun, I totally agree with what you are saying on the research being shut down and also dysphoria seems to present concomitantly with other disorders as well. I worry that young people with several issues will get encouraged to see transitioning as a solution to a completely different problem. Shuting down the research which seems to be a main aim of some activists is a serious problem. The guy who wanted to study de-transitioning was a really good example. The trans lobby want to increase the number of people getting access to transition but aren’t interested in helping those who change their minds!?? That is not supporting people.

YY Langcleg re: transwomen maintaining their sexual orientation towards women.

What I can't get over is the assymetricity of the situation... it's always women who are disadvantaged & forced to accommodate in these identity politics dynamics. Funny that

W8what

God, those Reddit threads. Those men are over the bloody place. I’ve never read such inconsistency in my life.

I agree. There is a lot of shame. There is also terror that it will be used to discredit them.

Deny, deny, deny.

Their sexual compulsion to become female is directly undermined by the knowledge that it is a sexual compulsion!

I believe there is a certain section in the community that wants it more out in the open. They feel it will be healthier for those concerned. Which, as that thread demonstrates, I’m sure it would be.

But you would have to have a dual reaction. If you have acceptability, then you have to have accountability.

Which won’t work.

I would accept men with AGP and then deprive them of the oxygen to feed the fetish, by excluding them from women’s spaces and not calling them women.

Little wonder they hide it.

I worry that young people with several issues will get encouraged to see transitioning as a solution to a completely different problem.

I couldn’t agree more. Stephanie Davis Arai says she has yet to see a woman/girl who wants to transition who isn’t either a lesbian, autistic or has had past sexual trauma.

None of which go away after transitioning.

LangCleg - yeah the cotton ceiling stuff is the mosrt disgusting thing I’ve heard for ages. Riley denis is an awful person. “I’m not saying lesbians should have sex with men....but I am”. How many men would get away with saying shite like that on a public platform these days!?? You should read the reddit trans threads, its amazing how many “no-one should have sex with a person they don’t want to but y’know if you don’t you are a bigot”. Even bloody reddit lesbian has decided that if you reject a person just because they are trans then you are a transphobe. What in the actual f*ck is going on!???

www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/15ha8u/on_dating_trans_women_and_transphobia/

I soend too much time on reddit...waaaaaay too much

What I can't get over is the assymetricity of the situation... it's always women who are disadvantaged & forced to accommodate in these identity politics dynamics. Funny that

That’s such a good way of describing it. Asymmetrical.

Off that reddit thread, the bottom one

'Autogynephilia: Or as cis women call it, "feeling sexy.'

Erm..no.

The actual lesbians one too..just what.the.fuck

Things which are transphobic:

Not being interested in, or not dating, a specific woman because she is trans.

Basically, not being interested in or dating a male person. Is transphobic. Yeah, sure.

Didn't Actual Lesbians ban some posters for transphobia?

So actual lesbians were banned from Actual Lesbians for the crime of being actual lesbians...

Even bloody reddit lesbian has decided that if you reject a person just because they are trans then you are a transphobe. What in the actual f*ck is going on!???

People are very impressionable and desperate not to appear bigoted. People need more life experience so they can learn to say 'fuck off' to things which are wrong and not just blindly accept crap in the name of diversity.

Aged 15, Lily complained to Race for Life that they were discriminatory for not allowing men to take part. Compared men not being allowed to race with Rosa Parks being asked to give up her seat to a white person.
twitter.com/jmer64/status/934406259503190017