anyone else been ditched by friends for having Gender critical views?

[JetCityWoman]

Long time user new account

just that really? I've been quite vocal of the importance of biology and a lot of my female friends have basically told me to fuck off. were talking 5+ year friendships all gone because I refuse to accept men can be women.

anyone else navigating this weird state of being?

at work they’re having a transgender day of remembrance with Susie Green and Peter Tatchell on a panel

I always want to oh-so-innocently ask them to share a story of a local victim so I can light a candle for them. Then watch them scramble around for some kind of answer

Lordy, Jiggly, I don't blame you. There's an actor that did that, was on talk shows etc, being so brave, and it drove me mad. Such brave, brave straight people!

Frustratingly I work for a different company that is based in the same building so I can’t even attend or ask questions - I just see posters about it and get annoyed at being so powerless!

Deesqqq

Ive only discussed it fairly tentatively with friends because I don't want to find out we don't agree. My partner thinks the whole thing is ridiculous, but acknowledges that as a straight man he is unaffected, and gets why I'm so angry. My mum initially didn't see the problem and thought we should just be kind to people and let them identify how they want. She gets it now and loves that there's a new wave of feminism challenging this. My brother, on the other hand, is a classic example of a privileged lefty virtue-signalling his way around the internet. We had a blazing row about it a couple of weeks ago and he called me a bigot. So he can fuck off, I can live with that. It's hardly a surprise that he lines up with the special snowflakes.

Doobigetta call him a homophobe in return, then, because that's what he's supporting!

I can feel myself treading very carefully around all this on social media. I don't really do politics/social issues on Facebook; twitter is another matter, but as I use my real name, I am wary of wading into too many online debates. I do follow and sometimes retweet various gender-critical people on there.

At home, I don't avoid the subject with DD, but also tread carefully. She is 15, one of her best friends is FTM trans, she is well versed in all the tumblr/instagram/youtube trans stuff and so would probably react badly to some of my thoughts on the subject, but I have (I think) got her to agree that there are problems with the gender identity bill being wide open to exploitation by abusive men, and that biological males should not compete in women's sports, and that lesbians are perfectly entitled not to want sex with someone who has a penis, no matter how they identify. I think it helps that she has known for years that I have trans and gay friends, and that I brought her up to be critical of gender stereotypes. I'll keep chipping away, little by little...

Spoke of this to a group of friends today - all were angry at women’s concerns being disregarded. We all play sports togethet and several have had issues with ore op TW using their clubs showers/changing rooms, also playing in women’s tournaments.

I've had a couple of friends 'come out as non-binary' recently. I have said kind things to them and kept my instinctive eye-rolling to myself, because they are people I like and care about and if it makes them happy then I don't want to piss on their parade.

But I've been accustomed, for at least two decades, to knowing people who 'have more than one identity' and it's NBD. I know LARPers and re-enactors and assorted performers who see a distinct separation between 'JB Smith' the person who puts the bins out and does a crap job in a call centre and has tea with the parents on Sundays, and 'Fabulous Fairycake' who has magic powers or sings rude songs while wearing a pair of green wings, or Werrity the Peasant who lives in the woods and is ace with a bow and arrow (but only on the weekends).
I think a lot of the people who consider themselves 'non-binary' are not so much self-indulgent twats playing victim bingo as they are rejecting rigid gender roles in a way that gets them more sympathy and support than they have previously been used to - some people still grow up surrounded by a lot of distressing insistence that some stuff is for boys and some stuff is for girls and you are a disgusting freak if you don't conform. 'Non-binary' might be, for some kids, a way of getting a little breathing space to explore who and what they are and want to be - even a way of not being rushed into a total transition when they actually like their own bodies, but not the gender expectations.

Reanimated you put it very well (and "Werrity the Peasant (but only at weekends)" made me laugh, but I think it's always been thus, re non-binary, just called different things. I spent a big chunk of my early childhood - and I'm not the only one - with a male alter-ego (called something very boring - think Roger, but it wasn't that) which gave me permission to do things that were frowned on for girls. (And I spent much of my twenties with a short-back and sides, but did not dye it blue.)

I posted something once on FB and got shit for it and I managed to hurt someone who has a transgendered child. No one bothered to actually read and think about what I had written.

I discuss it often with my best friend and while she doesn't feel as passionately about it as I do she fully understands my fears. My sister is very GC and so is my son and husband.

I have seen my son get a lot of stick for expressing his views. He was also called jealous because he is gay, and apparently he is pissed of because he isn't getting enough attention now. People have been shocked by his views because if you are gay you should be accepting of everyone and the new proposed laws because you're 'different' too.

I posted on facebook today for the first time after seeing someone commenting on a friend's facebook post, not exactly gender critical commenting but speaking out against what happened Helen Steele at the anarchist bookfair, and was getting no replies so I thought it was right to support her in her comments and now I'm dreading the backlash I might get.

Natsku

Just remain calm, but condemning of the violence. If you think it’s going badly, do not get involved in an argument about transgenderism.

Just keep saying you don’t condone the violence. Because, remember, other people will be looking and lurking. People who condone violence eventually reveal themselves as misogynists. Let them do it. You have to do very little.

Ok will do. I linked to Helen Steele's statement which I would hope would make some people at least realise what really happened there.

I have shared articles which are gender critical and have been met with stony silence. I have tried to discuss it with some people but I'm not sure they see it that way and I did get the impression they thought I may be a little bigoted (or insanely obsessed with something that doesn't affect me or them even though it does). It is a difficult subject to bring up because for most of us our friends are kind people who care about the vulnerable members of society and they are repeatedly being told this group is the MOST vulnerable. Unless you delve into those stats, unless you read gender critical analysis, unless you see the madness play out on social media with your own eyes, all you do see is the articles in newspapers stating dubious stats as fact and virtue signalling for all they are worth.

It's tricky, very tricky and I don't want to lose friends but I'm not going to pretend I'm fine with this self-ID nonsense - I just can't.

*not sure they see it the way I do (not sure what happened there - I need coffee)

insanely obsessed with something that doesn't affect me or them even though it does

I’ve had this from my mother, who’s giving me this face a lot lately.

What you say is spot on.

Other women are having slightly more success with posting the Robert Winston article.

He is fairly mainstream, well respected, a bit of a love.

LemonJello I am sorry to hear this. I have found that leading with the (incredibly vile and pretty naked) homophobia of trans activism sometimes gets better results, because the listener can still (quite rightly) then put themselves in the category of "not an actual bigot" if they agree with you.

(The most pernicious thing about this issue is that people fighting against misogyny and homophobia are the ones being cast as the bigots, and of course nobody wants to be seen as a bigot.)

Thanks Annie. That’s what I went with, but nope. Not interested. How can people think that a normally liberal, inclusive person would arrive at bigotry through extensive reading and critical analysis? Because in my experience that’s not usually how bigots are created.

How can people think that a normally liberal, inclusive person would arrive at bigotry through extensive reading and critical analysis? Because in my experience that’s not usually how bigots are created.

That's really nicely put. People don't generally educate themselves into bigotry.

I am to scared to share my views with my friends or with colleagues at work. It frustrates me because this will have a direct impact on women. I have a baby daughter and it will impact on her when she grows up. It feels like the whole trans agender is snow balling. Put simply there is nothing that can be done about it is there?